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Kolostramin

Topic: Opinions about these nasty, burning thingamajigs we all call flames.

So, personas, why do people flame? Personally, I think if a person takes the time to read a chapter, then tries to burn it to the ground, they're wasting their time. Constructive criticism is always better.

But that doesn't answer anything. Why DO people flame? Do they like it? Obviously, or they wouldn't do it. Do they actually think that it helps? I don't know. Any comments?

#1 Jun 04th 2007, 9:12pm

GlassesLolita

I personally have never been flamed before, but I also think constructive criticism is a better alternative.

But, it could be that the person flames because they don't know how to advice someone without having to be a big jerk about it. Some people are like that, and if that's the case, then it's something that they have to work on themselves. Also, sometimes a flame is needed when the person has not listened to anyone else's opinion about how to improve it and just keep on posting poor pieces of writing.

....Or, like you said, they just have fun writing trash about other people's stories/poems.

#2 Jul 11th 2007, 1:28pm

Kolostramin

For all readers:

If you want lots and lots of useful and useless information on flames, go to fanfiction.net and look up "The Fireplace" forum. Just don't expect to be coddled, because they won't.

It may well change your outlook on flames. It did mine...sort of.

#3 Jul 17th 2007, 4:58pm

GlassesLolita

As soon as you posted that, Kolo, I immediately went there and I must say.....I spell review wrong sometimes. FlameRising would probably hate me if I ever talked with him/her. =(

I must admit, it does give you the flamers point of view, and i think I can understand why they would flame some stories.....but I still stand by what I said in the last post.

#4 Jul 17th 2007, 5:58pm

concerto49

Yes, flaming isn't that nice. If they did bother read it and if it does have problems, say what is wrong with it. Don't just flame. Totally agree. Maybe some people just do it, but why read it in the first place then? Who knows. Anyhow.

#5 Jul 20th 2007, 5:52am

Julian Laverne

I guess for some people, there's an odd satisfaction in burning and condemning a person's creativity. Rarely do I ever find that flaming is the result of a person's irrevocable passion for hating the story; it's usually done intently with a will to hurt the author.

#6 Dec 26th 2007, 9:45pm

Kolostramin

Here's another thought, somewhat linked to Julian's: The single person I've found worthy of the name, on fanfiction.net calls (him)self Flame Rising, and personally proclaims that (he) doesn't flame constructively. He does it to do it. Considering how many narrow-minded people there are in the world, it's not at all surprising how much sense that sentence makes.

On the other hand, responding to a previous comment (I don't have the name) I find it unlikely that people can accidentally flame unless they are not well versed in the language they are using. I hate to categorize, but I think it may fall into two separate categories--those who flame because they want to flame, and those who do not flame. I cannot find rationale for accidental flames. On the other hand, if the reviewed author is exceedingly delicate about how people comment on (their) story, it's not at all unlikely they might consider a frank, hard-spoken review a flame.

...Huh. What babble. There's another view for you.

#7 Dec 30th 2007, 5:38pm

Kolostramin

But concerning exactly why an author might flame, besides that they just want to (i.e. why they want to) I'm not even going to try to get into it. Psych is beyond me. If a verbologist in that particular discipline ever shows up here, maybe we'll get clarification. As it is, I ignore flames unless they're amusing or creative, and have stopped visiting the Fireplace because it's boring.

#8 Dec 30th 2007, 5:41pm

Disturbly

Well, what point does constructive crit serve? How many people on this site even care about the quality of their writing, versus the number of people who post insipid drivel to garner ego validating praise? Many writers here wouldn't know constructive criticism if you painstakingly explained what was wrong with their Mary Sue characters, listed a dozen examples of ways to fix them, and then sent them a spell corrected copy of their story in a document attached to an e-mail.

#9 May 07th, 10:29am

Disturbly

And, furthermore, what if the story is so bad that there is no constructive criticism to be given? What is a story is simply so bad (typos, misused verbs, punctuation errors, shifting verb tenses, mono-dimensional characters, cliched plot lines), that there is simply no advice you can give that would lead to improvement that wouldn't be tantamount to rewriting their entire story for them? What review would you send in that situation; do you praise them for doing the most basic things right ("You didn't forget to capitalize the first word of the sentence in line 4")? Look, this is a site for novice authors, and many of them suck. Some have potential, some don't. A fair percentage of "authors" here are not talented writers, they do not have a moving story to tell, and they do not have any particular gift wielding the written word. Shouldn't they be made aware of this now, before they try to support themselves by doing this crap? Because while most of the people on fp.com seem to subscribe to some kind of special olympics inspired, "everybody gets a medal" mentality, God knows that they won't be coddled that way when they send their hackneyed and decadent daydreams to an actual editor or publisher.

#10 May 07th, 10:43am

Kolostramin

Okay, from the top.

First, the point of constructive criticism is to help. Here's a view which may remove some of those oh-so-helpful comments relevance.

1. If you encounter someone who does not write or accept constructive ciriticism, you may be able to tell that simply from looking at the reviews their stories have had, or at their profile. If you can figure that out, why the hell would you spend the time to review at all, much less take the time to flame? Go find someone who can accept your comments without spewing profanity.

2. I've been on this site approximately three years, and in my time I've looked over a number of authors who didn't want reviews. I ignored them. I've reviewed I believe one, and when I received a blasting response I never talked to them again. I deal with the people who may want what help I can give.

3. On the other hand, if you encounter someone who has such enormous problems that they cannot spell it correctly, why not let them know anyway? How much of a story do you have to read to understand that? Tell them what the problem is and then ignore them until they fix it. It's your choice to read worthless stuff if you want.

4. To quote Stephen King, there are the following types of writers 1) supreme above guys 2) good writers 3) average writers and 3) below average writers. I'll admit that a goodly number of people on this site (I don't have a percentage and am not going to attempt to sound official or correct when I don't have a total sum) that I have encountered do not have that much talent, yes.

It ends up, how much time do you want to spend attempting to help people who want help, and how much time you want to spend trying to help people who really don't care that much. Personally, I just don't deal with the people who don't want help. Nor do I read stories that have no quality unless it's a brief blurb concerned the need for an overhaul.

Flames are a completely different matter. Flames are malicious and by their very definition are intended more to hurt than to help. There is a line between flames, frank appraisals, and coddling. Seeing as how I've gotten off of my flame rant and it doesn't make much difference to me as a person, I ignore flames and refuse to coddle. In this case, there's a middle ground.

#11 May 08th, 2:24pm

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