Though, you said us kids, so I thought I'd play the kid.

After reading said FP writer's profile, I have now realized WHY the religion argument is so important. Hmm. Something of so little importance to other people is of massive importance to someone else. What a Greek tragedy.

Look, you can't please everyone, and you know that. As far as things go, religion doesn't offend me - I like to see differing opinions of the Higher Power. If your reviewer doesn't think you should use certain subject matter, whoopie. Good for them. By all means, Miss Reviewer, don't use it. But you, as the writer, are entitled to use it if you want. In fact, if you're using it and it sparks that kind of emotion, GOOD JOB! More power to ya. It may be socially unacceptable where she comes from, but if it is...why is she reading it...

Also, yes, a person can only speak for herself. She can't really express the views of her entire society because she may not hold with each and every view of her entire society. I mean, our society in the USA (where I am) is completely strange and ever-changing...not to mention the society just in the tiny little town I live in.

I'm gonna be honest; there's religion in my story, too. Maybe not a lot of it, but there are hints to it. A few different religions, too. It's not overpowering, just allusions to it. It works for me. I'll be honest, too much religion in a story turns me off. I don't read religious fiction, but I know people that do. It's a perfectly viable genre of literature, and I admire anyone who can write it well.

As for stuff from news reports, well...the media sucks, okay? Of course they're inaccurate, they make stuff up as they go. I got asked to work for my local newspaper and TV station and I laughed in their faces. I'm not going to write fiction and pass it off as nonfiction. As for wanting to know what other people in other societies think...my friend, this is why we created the glorious invention known as the Internet. :)

Yeah, I know, probably stating the obvious, but hey. I do what I do best.

It looks like I've really stirred something up. It seems that MrBillyD is suffering from writer's block again. When that happens, he starts hanging out in the forums, and getting into trouble.

If I said that I hadn't intended to offend anyone, somebody might ask what I would have written, if I had intended to offend someone.

To get serious, nobody is required to read anything on fictionpress .com, that he or she finds objectionable. However, if people do read it, they might not have their minds changed, but they will have added to their knowledge, which is always good. While the brain isn't a muscle, it should be exercised regularly anyway.

I have known Europeans all my life. I have a vague memory of my Italian grandmother, who I'm not sure I ever heard speak English. Many of the parents and grandparents of the kids I went to school with in New York City, were immigrants from Europe. Some of my teachers also immigrated from Europe.

On one job I had, my Manager was Estonian. His immediate superior was an abusive German, who used to angrily order people around, like an SS Officer. On the other hand, there is an elderly man who attends my Church, who fought in the German Army during World War II. He is one of the most kind hearted people you could ever meet, and I consider myself fortunate to regard him as a friend.

Another member of my Congregation is a recent refugee from Northern Ireland, who had to flee for his life, when the IRA put a price on his head. He now has a daughter attending John Jay Law School in the City. I also consider him, his wife and children to be good friends.

You are right, Europeans are the same as us. As a matter of fact, they are us.

Well your first post did cvome off a little prejudice. But as far as that what you put in your writing if you don't bother SOMEONE then there probably isn't much being said.

But anyhow;

tried descriptions?

Expanding characters' thoughts and actions?

For example. Me in my swivel chair in the university library I shall do a spin, lets look at what I see:

out of the 17 people here, I can see at least three races, each personm with a completely different belief system coexisting quite well.

Then take the Guild groups, youy walk down the main walkway on a Wednesday and there are clubs for every belief system hobby or drinking preference.

Not to mention the fact that 3/4 of my friends aren't the same as me on 99% of what I believe in.

::))

What's pained me to see is how many people post incredibly short pieces with maybe 100-200 words and wind up getting all sorts of reviews that say the same general "It's so good please write more!" kind of message. I don't know why, but the fact that these short pieces with little-to-no content wind up getting the majority of attention here on FP despite taking maybe two minutes of actual effort to produce really makes me frustrated, because I know there are others like me out there who want to produce something epic and lengthy. I want to give people an experience, not just a two-paragraph piece of angst.

Looking down on people who write "genre" fiction is nothing but snobbery. What really matters is not what you write, but how well you write it. I've never taken a college writing course, though I did begin a few corespondense courses; none of which I ever completed. I write mostly fan fiction, which I post on fanfiction .net. I consider that entire website as an academy for writers like myself, who cannot afford college tuition. I have been a member for almost a year and a half, and I have learned more about writing in that short time, than in the previous fourty years. In all those fourty years, I only managed to sell one short story, for which I was paid $5.20.

After all that, the most practical advice I'd give to any aspiring writer is this. No matter how good you are, whether you write main stream or genre, don't quit your day job. If any of your writing professors tell you that, it isn't snobbery. It's being practical.

I think the reason that people give such short reviews, is that few people know how to write them. There are no guidelines. I think it would be helpful if the reviewing pages contained a rating system, in which stories could be rated A: Excellent. B: Good. C: Fair. D: Poor.

The ratings could be given for Characters, Plot, Etc.

There would also be room for general comments, like we already have.

I think we would all be giving and getting much better reviews, if we followed these or similar guidelines.

I agree. The department here at my college is way too focused on being edgy and different from the mainstream, but all it produces is people who all write about the same things in the same manner. They don't seem to be able to differentiate between "genre" and "influence" that well either; most of the stories I submitted for critiques were mainly critiqued because they fell slightly under what my teachers considered an action or mystery genre.

After all that, the most practical advice I'd give to any aspiring writer is this. No matter how good you are, whether you write main stream or genre, don't quit your day job. If any of your writing professors tell you that, it isn't snobbery. It's being practical.

Yeah, that's definitely something we learned as well. Writing isn't going to make you famous or rich, so it's best to do it on the side instead of trying to make a career out of it. Just look at the WGA.

What do you mean by "genre" fiction, exactly?

Genre fiction as in anything that falls into a particular category of established genres ... like the way Fiction Press is currently set up. Most of the stuff I write I consider "general" fiction because it's not really focused on a particular genre despite having certain influences from established genres like noir or mystery.

That's one of the problems I see with Fiction Press and the whole "cliche" debate. Fiction Press is set up in a way that everything has to be categorized into a specific genre, with everything that lies outside of those parameters labeled as "general". People mostly venture into genres that interest them, which is why they probably tend to read the same kinds of stories over and over; it's familiar to them. In the real world, that's really what sells.

And you know, it's not nice to say "better" authors, especially if you're not published yourself. It makes you sound very arrogant. And J.K. Rowling and Dan Brown are good authors. So don't say "better" authors.

I know it isn't nice, but if you look at the majority of people who read and love those authors, many of them are NOT the kind of people who read other, well-established authors. In my opinion neither writer is really that superb in terms of their writing style, nor are they as original and innovative as everyone seems to think they are, yet they managed to sell millions of books to a public that reads less and less these days. It makes me angry when I see people with "The Da Vinci Code" as the only book they own, and as much as I love the "Harry Potter" series, I hate how people don't put the same amount of time and enthusiasm into reading anything else.

Sure, you can say that I have no right to judge either of them, being unpublished myself, but it's my own opinion. You don't have to be published to have one of those.

...but anyway, I guess none of that was really the point of my original post. I found this topic recently after not being on Fiction Press for awhile, and it intrigued me because I agreed with a number of the points that everyone's been talking about. I think FP could be a great tool for writers looking to work with original ideas, but for the most part I'm disappointed with the small amount of quality material being produced on a daily basis. Again, I'm not trying to put people down or make myself come across as "arrogant", but if you look at the "Just In" section every few days you'll notice that a lot of the work being published on FP is either incredibly short and/or not well-thought-out.

That's something that really needs to change.

My point is that although you weren't implying that Rowling and Brown are bad authors, I think putting the word "better" in capital letters tends to rub some people the wrong way.

It sounds like you've taken a writing course, in which you feel forced to write in a way that pleases only your professor. Remember this. Your professor is only one person, and he's paid to be critical; but most people who read anything, are looking to be pleased, and are not looking for everything they can possibly find that is wrong.

Now as for your disappointment with the amount of quality material, that is found here on fictionpress .com, and the associate website fanfiction .net, there is something else you should keep in mind. A large number of contributers are highschool students. Many others are attending junior high. They are just beginning as writers. If the first things they post are of poor quality, they are only beginning to learn. They will get better. What they need is our encouragement, not condescending scorn.

Before I say anything, I just want to add on to what MrBillyD said. Your professor is only one person, and only one opinion. He/She doesn't represent the masses. That is his/her job, to be critical and help you improve. Most writers who are on FictionPress are between 13 - 20, (I do fit that category since I am shy of fifteen in three months)and they are just starting out. It's like the first day at your job. Sure, you're bond to make mistakes but as time goes on your eventually become better and better until you know the routine with your eyes closed. Granted, someone's going to tell you that you're doing this wrong, that doesn't go there, no you press this to get the ... and then correct you. And then there's going to be people who praise you and just flat out tell you, you're not fit for this job. It's the same with writing.

It does frustrate me that some stories that are so poorly written (and no one dotes on that) have like 123045321+ reviews and then stories that are really great and well-written have like 8 reviews for twelve chapters. But, the thing is, the stories that are poorly written have reviews that say, "awesome! (Blank) and (Blank) are so into each other", "(Blank) is such a b*tch", or "update soon! this storie rawks" which saddens me because the writer's of these stories aren't getting any criticism (except one or two people who get booed by the other 5000 who are madly in love with the story) and it's really just stroking their ego's and later in life, someone is going to say, "Kid your story is horrible."

Me, when I was twelve I thought that my writing was beautiful and absolutely the best. I was like, everyone's just jealous of my writing. And the thing is, I'd usually ask my teacher for critique and she'd tell me it's great. Well, a year later, I did the same thing with my new literature teacher and he told me flat out, you need a lot of improvement (Well he had said, that I basically need to start over). And now, looking back at my old stuff, it was dog sh*t. It was horrible, and I'm glad that he told me - I can't even read it without wanting to punch my younger self. I don't know, but I guess they didn't want to like burst my bubble or hurt my feelings when I was younger but I'm glad that he did tell me that my writing was horrible. :D

All stories have been done before, it's how you execute it. People who write cliches, they do have something to draw back on - like say, the whole Vampire/human relationship - they have Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens (Max Shreck one), Shadow of a Vampire (Also Max Shreck one about Max Shreck being a vampire) Brahms Stoker's Dracula, and Stephanie Meyer's Twilight series (even though I wouldn't suggest using that as a starting foundation) while stories that you start from stratch with are harder to write because you have to incorporate what you know to write (not what someone else has written) to paint a picture in your reader's mind. You have a idea (like a seed) and you have to build off of that using only your knowledge and writing skills to transform it into a plant.

Wait, where am I going with this ... well, originally to the real point.

I don't understand why cliched stories have so many reviews, but sadly, that's just the way is. Look at the NY Bestsellers list and prepare not to be surprised. Hello, Gossip Girls! Goodbye good literature (like Lolita by Vladmir Nabokov, Anna Karenina, War & Peace by Leo Tolstoy and Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury). D;

- Tainted Selfish -

P.S - Why doesn't anyone use the words whatchamacallit, thingamejig, or doohickie?

I think the reason is simply that a large number of people who read these stories, don't have very much time in which to do so. I personally don't have all that much time either. I can't afford to go on line at home, so I'm using the computers at my local library, and I'm only here for 2&1/2 to 3 hours, four days a week, and I have other websites to deal with.

I also find the lack of reviews for my longer stories to be very frustrating; but I do check my stats. If there are a large number of hits, on the final chapter, that means that many people found the story interesting enough to stay with it to the end.

On the other hand, yesterday I posted a very short story in fanfiction .net, in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer section, titled "All the Cool Kids Are Undead", containing a little more than 600 words. As of this morning, I't had received 90 hits, but not one review. The only conclusion I can come to from that, is that I must be very good at composing titles and writing summaries.

MrBillyD, you gotta admit, 'All The Cool Kids Are Undead' is one kick ** name. Seriously. :D

Thank you for your positive review of my story's title. It would also be nice, to see what you think of the story itself.

"Will do captain!"

Oh, and is your name the same on FF.net? ... I'll just stop being lazy and look it up. @-@

PS - A late Happy Holidays to everyone and to a new year!

- Tainted Selfish -

Yes, I do use the same pen name on fanfiction .net. There I am also MrBillyD. I hope you enjoy the story, and if you have the time, maybe you'll read other stories of mine, and I'll review one or more of yours.

I hope you had a very Merry Christmas, and will have a Happy New Year.

It is then that Andy's agent what he wants credibility or fame and fortune, because you can't have both.

Now don't get me wrong, I've found frankly brilliant stories with lots of reviews, but a lot of the more popular stories are quite cliched, aimed at the mean girls loving teenagers...now I love getting reviews, I do, I'm new to fiction press but I've been on fan fiction for a while and it is much easier to get reviews when your playing with characters people already know they like.

I think here, people really need to give new things a chance- I've found some really great pieces with one or no reviews at all (I'm trying to right that at the moment- but I'm just one person!)

I don't know how all this sounds, but it's just my opinion

I agree that a lot of people do seem to be reading romance, and over-repetitive topics based on those too. Sigh. I hope there is something big we can do about it.