My book so far - Need tips for book Forum

Topic: My book so far

I'm trying to write a book. Haven't decided on the title or a lot of the details, but I have a start. Basically the same sort of setting as Eragon and Lord of the Rings. Here's what I've got so far:

~A girl named Mira lives in a village at the edge of a forest. She often goes into the wood, for her mother is a healer, and requires a number of herbs, most of which are found at the base of the trees. Recently, the forest was different; darker, quieter, a constant feeling of being followed. One day, her dog, named Sable, starts barking at a clump of bushes, and Mira thinks she sees a pair of cat-like eyes. Thinking it was just an animal, she returns home. She tells her best friends, Rishae and Allea, about what she saw. They are a bit skeptical, and decide to come with Mira the next time she goes into the forest.

Later, in the wood, all three girls, and Sable, are walking down the trail, keeping their eyes peeled for the eyes. They do appear, but no sooner do they see it, that they vanish again. Sable begins searching the ground around the tree the ees were in. The dog came back with something glittering in her mouth. It turns out to be an amulet, inset with rose quartz, and a carved golden dragon in the center. They are all puzzled. It's definately not an animal that had dropped it, but a person.~

Obviously, that is just the basic story line. I'm in a bit of a state of writer's block at the moment. I know there will be a villain. Not sure how I will create him yet. All I know is, he will have something to do with fire. Characters are still being developed, as are the settings and story line.

Any suggestions? I really need help.

#1 May 31st 2007, 6:55pm

My advise to you is this: When writing anything with a fantasy element, the possibilities are limitless. Thus, you must limit the possibilities by knowing your characters—what they will and will not do becomes the outline of the world they live in. Once you know your characters, and have therefore limited what can happen based on them, you have a more definite idea of the plot.

#2 Jun 07th 2007, 11:46am

Mattias

Ah, Writer's Block. We all get it. We all hate it.

You have a starting point, and that's awesome: you know where you're going with it. At this point, it's very critical to at least have some sort of idea where you want to take your story. Getting a scrap piece of paper and putting down some possible plot ideas are a good idea. You don't need to use all of them, especially right away, but there's always something you can go back to and alter for future ideas.

The same approach can be used for characters and location. Where the characters will go, who they'll meet, what types of interaction there will be within those groups. It's a lot to think about, isn't it? However, the more you plan out, and the more sense you make of everything, the easier and quicker it'll be to write. A title will come later on; it doesn't have to be decided right away.

Hope this helps. Happy writing! :)

#3 Jun 23rd 2007, 1:23pm

Getting a scrap piece of paper and putting down some possible plot ideas are a good idea. You don't need to use all of them, especially right away, but there's always something you can go back to and alter for future ideas.

That’s really an excellent idea, especially not being hasty with shoving ends together. Think it over and let the pieces meet on their own. Chances are, if you have to force it, it won’t work.

Always write things down. Three years in progress, and my must-write-story-but cannot has a whole two BIG binders of scrap notes and discarded manuscripts.

#4 Jun 23rd 2007, 1:34pm

I think I might try that. It'd be a change from what I normally do, which is I go over the story repeatedly in my head, changing and adding things until I have a story. Then I write it down, and I can go through several rough drafts before it's comeplete.

I also like to see what I need to change by letting other people read it. That's why I have the prologue to my book already put up here. That's because when you write it yourself, you often don't notice some errors.

Thanks for your help! :)

#5 Jun 23rd 2007, 1:48pm

A tip you might consider: If you ever plan on publishing your manuscript with a publishing company or even just self-publishing, I suggest that you not post it on the internet before you have legal copyrights to it. Work is stolen all the time through the web.

As far as strategy goes, try both. Half of my stories are in my head and the other half on paper. Find a medium that’s comfortable for you.

#6 Jun 23rd 2007, 2:10pm

Yeah, I guess you're right. Oh well. I guess the story I've started here will be a different one than my book! Don't know how, but it will.

#7 Jun 23rd 2007, 2:13pm

That’s the spirit! Maybe you could take two different view points—maybe two co-protagonists or the protagonist and the antagonist.

#8 Jun 24th 2007, 8:22am

GreyStar Dreams

Well, for starters, I would watch out for Eragon. I enjoyed the book but according to the critics, it was clichéd beyond existence and was made from the hides of true writers. That may be true, but then again the bottom line is that I enjoyed the book. Anyway...

Don't avoid clichés. If you stick to the base cliché then please, REFRAIN, but, if you make the cliché your own then that means that you can probably make an epic. Tolkien had what we consider 'cliché' but he made them his own!

Make a very hooking start.

Don't infodump.

No mary-sue's or marty-stu's. They are pure evil. (If anyone here doesn't know what a mary-sue or marty-stu is, I'll be happy to tell them)

If you have stereotypes, make sure to make them your own.

If someone critiques your work and it may say "Don't ever try to publish this." do NOT have a fit at them. That is not a flame. This is a flame: "OMG U SUCK GO DIE AND JUMPOFFACLIFF WIT UR UNORIGINALCRAAAP!!" there is no justice behind those words. As long as the reviewer can justify their claims then it is constructive critism.

Return reviews. You will not regret it.

Just because someone is evil doesn't mean that they have to wear black... just because they're good doesn't mean that they have to wear white.

No stupid villains. Why send armies of minions when you can get the job done perfectly yourself?

Think realistically and do research. Example: Someone has a solid gold sword. Gold may be cool but gold is HEAVY and unless the character wielding the sword is super strong, I don't think that they'll be able to carry it.

I have more but I really need to go. I hope this helps!! Happy writing :D

From Laughter

#9 Jun 30th 2007, 6:58am

-Eragon was a stolen book. There are many smaller works that are almost the same as eragon. Eldest was an original story.

-Pure gold is to soft to make a sword - lets say an army of 100 with gold swords vs an army of 10 with steel or iron the army of 10 would win. pure gold can molded with ur hands

-though the thing you said about evil ppl is true but who dosent want a story with an underdog. and an evil guy with thousands of minions.

#10 Jul 04th 2007, 6:18pm

good stories can come when your dreaming or daydreaming just relax and the stories will come to u. Remember if you have to strain yourself to write then the work isnt you but if you let the story come naturaly then it is yours. And also when writing save everything what looks bad at first will be good. writers always rewrite things it natural.

#11 Jul 04th 2007, 6:23pm

Estrella Drage

I recommend daydreaming too; it helped me out a lot. If it feels right to you, then write it! Otherwise, spend more time focusing on details and putting the puzzle pieces of the plot line together.

#12 Jul 06th 2007, 6:02pm

Evil Minion Number 2

Eragon's a stolen work all around. For people's complaints against the book, see www.anti-shurtugal.com

#13 Jul 20th 2007, 12:27pm

The fact that it is stolen does not mean that it can't be inspiration to someone.

#14 Jul 20th 2007, 12:41pm

Ok, getting off topic here.

I don't care if Eragon was stolen, it is one of my favorite stories.

#15 Jul 20th 2007, 2:12pm

Why did you like Eragon?

#16 Jul 20th 2007, 3:22pm

It's just a great story with interesting chaaracters. Do I need another reason?

#17 Jul 20th 2007, 8:34pm

I was hoping for something a little more detailed. I found the movie dissapointing, so wondered what kind of inpsiration you had found in it.

#18 Jul 21st 2007, 2:30pm . Edited Jul 21st 2007, 3:14pm

Oh. I just find inspiration in the book; the way the characters act, what they do, their personalities, and such. The movie: horrible. The book: good.

#19 Jul 21st 2007, 2:57pm

I guess I'll need to read the book then.

#20 Jul 21st 2007, 3:14pm

You should. The book is nothing like the movie; there's a lot more detail, important events that weren't even mentioned in the movie, and the characters are actually the way they're supposed to be.

Eldest is even better.

#21 Jul 21st 2007, 4:17pm

Penn Sullivan

The Amulet needs to do something undone by anyone ever

#22 Jul 29th 2007, 7:37pm

What would be an example?

#23 Jul 30th 2007, 6:14pm

The amulate could do somthing bad like kill someone and need to be destroyed. That would add an interesting twist to the story. Be carefull with this plot as it is simmilar to the plot of the "lord of the rings"

#24 Aug 01st 2007, 5:38pm

your story is simmilar to the plot of "The messenger" A sequal to the giver and also "Gathering blue" all by lois lowry

#25 Aug 01st 2007, 5:42pm

Really? I had no idea that my story was similar to "The messenger". I have never read it, so I would not know.

#26 Aug 02nd 2007, 5:07am

Penn Sullivan

I suppose it could be something rare like growing wings or switching bodies but nothing to common.

#27 Aug 04th 2007, 3:12pm

What would be considered common?

#28 Aug 04th 2007, 6:23pm

Welcome to the party... or, am I welcome to the party?

Saw this topic whilst on my daily prowl through the hall of forums.

... Got a darned prowling ticket...

Hmmm, too common?

That is almost impossible to answer, for there are many answers and to make matters even more complex, these answers vary from person to person.

Let's say that Person A thought that it was original and uncommon to have a mute dragon-shape-shifter as a protagonist but then Person B comes along and says that he has seen that happen too many times.

We are all different people and we have all seen different things.

And about the amulet... done the wrong way could make it a deux ex machina, which is bad.

A deux ex machina means “God in a box”.

Example: Hero is riding atop his Dragon with his magical Amulet until a Horde of Evil Minions comes out of nowhere and shoots Hero down. Whilst Hero is falling, he unintentionally uses Amulet’s power which somehow brings out a Majeekal Suit of Solid Gold Armour That Weighs Nothing, a Majeekal Sword called ‘Superdooperminionsweeper’ and somehow gives him a pair of super cool angel wings. Now because the Amulet, he can now fly and stop himself from falling, protect himself and slay all the minions.

All because of the Amulet.

... Now this is all a long way of saying: A Deux ex machina is something that gets the character out of the most unbelievable situations in a way so unrealistic and unbelievable that it has the power to stop time; to only exaggerate a little. A more sensible view of a deux ex machina is like in James Bond. He is surrounded by five random gang thugs and suddenly he whips out this gadget that helps him just in the nick of time.

If you still don’t get what I’m saying, I don’t blame you, I’m freaking confusing. Just look it up.

Haha... semi rant!

-Blinks- oh yeah, what could be considered too common...

Stay far from The Lord of The Rings plot... far, far away. A spirit trapped in the amulet has been done (Yu-gi-oh!)... oh, that’s all I can think of... WAIT! If it can destroy/save the world in the hands of the right user I shall cry many single tears.

Now, looking over your basic storyline... I have come to the conclusion that it is weak.

Don’t mean to be mean or anything, it’s just that a dog finding this... thing... is a bit too coincidental (And don’t you even DARE to tell me that it was fate or destiny [Ha, I was going to say density] –thwaps science over the head but the damn thing won’t stay down-) I know that I’m no great writer, hell I haven’t got anything up yet, but I do know a weak start when I see one.

Try and give me a better reason for her to find the amulet. Here are some questions that might help:

1) Does she contemplate on selling the amulet? Gold is worth a lot and it could solve some money problems. Don’t go saying that “She just had a ‘special feeling’ and wanted to keep it.” Regardless of the fact that selling the thing could help with food problems.

2) Why rose quartz. Why not amethyst? What is so special about rose quartz?

3) If she thought that the eyes she say in the bushes was just an animal, then why did she tell her friends. An animal is an animal isn’t it? Why fuss about it to her friends? Perhaps the thing tried to hurt her or something. And even THAT has a plot hole in it. If it hurt her then why endanger her friends as well?

4) Why a dragon? Why not a whale? Whales not good enough anymore?

5) How does she even see the eyes? Eyes don’t just glow. Cat’s eyes have special reflectors and spiders have the same so that they don’t get blinded. (And no, not all evil people’s eyes glow.)

6) Why did Mira look for the eyes when those eyes could have been the eyes of something that could hurt her? This is common sense.

Answer those questions and you might find yourself with a more palatable storyline and a stronger start.

And, for the love of tea parties, do NOT say: “It’s FANTASY, I can do whatever the hell I want.” Because that is NOT true.

I’d lend you my Chainsaw of Truth but I broke it whilst reviewing someone’s work. –takes off hat and shoves it under your nose-

Donations for a new chainsaw?

Nether the less, I hope this helps.

~The Last~

#29 Aug 05th 2007, 3:02am

Adding on to my own post... (Yes, I know I have quite a lot of spelling mistakes) Don't try and base your world off someone elses. I suggest going to The mumbling sage's profile and clicking on the link to world builder questions.

www.fictionpress.com/~themumblingsage

(copy paste)

And I'd watch out for Eragon's world.

Dwarves don't have to live in mountains or underground.

Elves don't have to live in trees and be at one with nature.

Why DO the dwarves live underground or in mountains anyway? I know in Eragon it was ahiding thing and for protection, but why. Just why.

Why must elves always have pointed ears and be at one with nature? What makes them closer to nature than humans?

Arrggghhh... I hate stereotypes.

~The Last~

#30 Aug 05th 2007, 3:30am

That sort of thing, not what I had in mind. There will not be any dragon riders, and no horde of evil minions. And a solid gold suit of armor? No. Angel wings? Definately not.

There is no spirit in the amulet.

I'm not done putting the whole plot together yet. It's a smart dog, and it was trying to find whatever it was looking out from the bushes.

She might, but she's curious. She's never seen anything like that before, and wants to know what it means.

2) Why rose quartz. Why not amethyst? What is so special about rose quartz?

I like rose quartz. It's pretty.

She doesn't know what it is, and she thought a second opinion would help.

4) Why a dragon? Why not a whale? Whales not good enough anymore?

I like dragons. I suppose I could do a tiger, or something. Dragons are a bit overdone.

She's carrying a lantern, and the light from it is reflected in the eyes.

6) Why did Mira look for the eyes when those eyes could have been the eyes of something that could hurt her? This is common sense.

She's curious; she's never encountered anything like it before, and wants to know what it is.

Dwarves don't have to live in mountains or underground.

Elves don't have to live in trees and be at one with nature.

There are no dwarves. I know, elves don't have to be stereotype, but that's the way I like it, and the elves in this story act more human, and they are at constant war with another species. Teretorial(sp?) rights, or something like that. I don't know. Like I said, I haven't quite gotten the plot together yet, so just wait and see.

Thanks for your input! :)

#31 Aug 05th 2007, 4:56am

No problem...

Though I think you may have gotten the wrong idea.

The example was exactly what I called it: An example.

It wasn't a list of what you should and shouldn't have, though I did breathe a sigh of relief as you went on to say that you were going to have none of the following. The same goes for the rest of the examples.

4) Why do you bother to put an animal on it at all if the animal has no significance in the story? If you had a dragon in the story and the amulet somehow invoked the power of a dragon or something about a dragon, then it would make sense. But, to chuck a dragon on it for no reason (or any other animal, for that matter) is just stupid.

5) Ah, but you don't mention this. Readers may be able to read the story but they can't read your mind. Make sure to put that in once you write the chapter up then.

6) Curiosity could get you killed; especially in fantasy worlds... though I get the hint that Mira is naive...

Hm, I suggest posting the story first THEN getting critism. Makes more sense.

~The Last~

#32 Aug 05th 2007, 5:32am

Adding on YET AGAIN because my mind works like that...:

The example was an example of a deux ex machina.

~The Last~

#33 Aug 05th 2007, 5:35am

The animal does have some significance. But now, I'm sure that it will be a tiger, and not a dragon. The owner of the amulet does have a certain fasination with tigers, so it makes sense.

Yes, I understand... an example.

I know, easier to get input after, rather than before. I just want to make sure whether or not I'm making to right choices.

And, there are two other characters; the owner of the amulet, and the villain. I haven't quite developed them yet, but the amulet's owner is a half breed (no, not elf and human), and the villain has something to do with fire. Lots of fire. And snakes.

#34 Aug 05th 2007, 5:40am

THE GREAT DEBATE!

Ahem.

Watch out for half breeds.

Some of them can generate more angst than an emo convention. (No offense to emos. Similie.)

~the last~

#35 Aug 05th 2007, 6:11am

Adding on =.="

Awake, I see.

lol.

~The last~

#36 Aug 05th 2007, 6:13am

I know that I have to be careful. She doesn't have the typical pain-filled past, and her parents had a sort of Romeo and Juliet sort of relationship, only they didn't get married after two days, and they didn't die. And they didn't speak in Shakespeare's version of english, so there's a plus. She just grew up somewhat seperated from others. Mainly because she prefers to be alone.

#37 Aug 05th 2007, 11:47am

Ah. I see that no fourm can survive without my touch of excelence since you are taking advice from some one who calls himself the last mad hatter. Which coincidentaly means that he creats hats using lead which is illegal. Infact anything that uses lead except for pipes is illegal. isnt that funny we can put lead into the pipes that carry our drinking water, but not in hats.

OK back on topic.

Do not use a tiger, its been done before by a great autor (forget the name) and it was horrible. tigers are not native to most areas, unless you decide to place the story in asia (Kung foo is way over done) or africa. I doubt you could write on africa without visiting it. You dont want to mock a county you have never been to it only leads to much ridequle from people who have been to that country.

The amulet could sound like it does somthing then near the end a charater accidentaly breaks it and there is somting inside.

Ex: "They need a small peice to finish the shadow eater( a small machine that kills shadows, shadows could be bad thing that inhabit people like a deamond.) some one drops the amulet, and the peice is found. they use the shadow eater on the villan and it kills him."

#38 Aug 06th 2007, 6:54pm

Ok, since tigers and dragons are overdone, what should I do?

No, I don't think there will be anything inside the amulet. Well, it's more of a medallion really. I'll probably have it give the wearer the ability to access powers that were previously un-reachable before. Unless that is overdone to?

...

I don't know.

#39 Aug 07th 2007, 7:17am

There was a book series that I read once, where there was an amulet. The amulet itself was nothing special, but there were white unicorn hairs wrapped around it that allowed the amulet's wearer to travel between the human realm and another...they just had to jump off the tip top of an old church.

#40 Aug 07th 2007, 7:24pm

Yes, I read that one. And it didn't have to be the top of a church, just where a portal would be opening. It could be a cave, a forest, wherever.

But the amulet in my story doesn't allow the wearer to travel between dimensions.

#41 Aug 08th 2007, 8:32am

That's alright. I was just saying that maybe the amulet doesn't have to be special, maybe it's something else like the unicorn hair.

#42 Aug 08th 2007, 8:52am

PenMage62442

Those are some pretty excellent tips. They're objective and somewhat critical so they get the writer to think...

I don't think her story is a terrible start, though. I mean, it's so tough to come up with an original idea (not that it justifies coming up with overly clichéd stuff). Part of the reason is that we all have some common stories that we like and can't help taking inspiration and ideas from. Another part of the reason is that people generally tend to draw ideas from something else. So, even if you think what you've thought up is completely original, when you tell it to a friend, you might find that they've already heard something like it or that you subconcsciously took the idea from something that already exists... well enough of my rant.

The young girl from a quaint village could pull it off if the story's given some major twists and isn't too LOTR-ish. (I love LOTR, but that's just it. There's can only be ONE or two really successful series like that).

Deux ex Machina... I've never heard of that but it looks like you have a good idea of the different elements and parts of stories. I guess that's a good point too, since it's no fun if the hero/heroine gets some sort of invincible weapon because then there's no struggle or conflict. The rose quartz is sort of hard to twist into a unique item for the hero/heroine... if it's a super weapon, it's no fun, and if it's cursed or some sort of hindrance, it reminds me too much of the One Ring from LOTR.(Maybe that's just me being narrow-minded).

I totally agree about staying away from LOTR, or Eragon; even if they've got good overall settings for a fantasy. The story should take a completely different direction.

Another idea might be making a parody of stories like LOTR (which is fun because you have a lot of material to work with)... I'm sorry I don't yet have any actual ideas for the story.

#43 Jan 05th, 5:08pm

I've got plenty of ideas now! My book is coming along really well, and I've made quite a few changes. The medallion is gold instead of rose quartz, for example. And it's not invincible. It had great power, yes, but it has a spell on it that binds its power. No one can access it except its rightful owner. People still fight over it, though.

Anyway, I'm well into chapter 3, and I know how it's gonna go. I've got it all in my head!

#44 Jan 06th, 5:06am

awilla the hun

Best of luck! I hope that it gets published, and then sells well, and then you can write a sequel (if its a trilogy), something else (if it isn't) or retire a rich man (if it makes you a buck.)

#45 Mar 21st, 5:47am

awilla, I think you mean, 'woman'. :)

Don't worry, I will be writing a sequal! That, and two prequals, so yay!

I'm almost finished with chapter 5, so it's coming along.

#46 Mar 21st, 5:40pm

I’ve always heard tell, and am somewhat resigned to believing it myself, that things are very rarely original. Brilliance doesn’t come out of a black hole. Try taking the old and twisting it in a different way.

Guardian, you said you’d finished chapter 5…dare I hope the comments here have helped?

#47 Mar 23rd, 4:18pm

Yes, this forum has help immensly. Thanks to all! :)

If anyone would like to see what some of the characters look like, I have some drawings on deviantart. There's a link on my profile.

#48 Mar 23rd, 4:21pm

Okay, random question--can you give me, in a nutshell, what deviantart is exactly? I've been refered there before but always get lost...

#49 Mar 23rd, 5:57pm