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Forums » Lurking in the shadows around the camp fire » The Criptozoologist’s Cabinet
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Mercurial Weather
Topic: The Criptozoologist’s Cabinet
I’m a lousy moderator I promised to do this a long time ago and couldn’t keep my word till now. I could load you with excuses but there’s no point in that. In a way what stopped me from opening the: “Supernatural Creature of the month” discussion was the hard time I had trying to come up with a working definition of what a supernatural creature is and the fact that some months I can’t come around. Well for starters I’m dropping the time restriction.

Now about the: what is a supernatural creature? If you’ve checked some of the other topics you’ll see we’ve already addressed, up to a point, the boundaries of Supernatural, unfortunately there was no conclusion I could draw from it and what little did came out of it isn’t that useful in establishing the aforementioned definition.

Instead of getting entangled in a philosophical discussion I chose to take the practical out-look: Whatever graces the pages of the Supernatural section here in fictionpress is subject to be looked through our criptozoologist’s magnifying lenses. If you want to include some other creature but fear they belong to the fantasy, spiritual, sci-fi, mythology, etc- section, very well, fear not bring it to the table and we’ll dissect it/him/her with pleasure.

Also if you’ve written a story about the creature we are discussing or about one of those which have been discussed before, then by all means old chap put a link to it. I have no problem with self-promotion as long as it’s not your only contribution to the topic; at least tell us how you came across your beast of choice. Tell us about the particular breed that lives in your homeland if you happen to know anything juicy and tell us about the one that lives in your mind an how it differs from the typical breed if it’s well known.

#1 Mar 16th 2007, 6:04am
Mercurial Weather
Ok my second problem was choosing the first creature to be discussed…Crap! I was going to be a selfish runt and open with vampires or demons (my personal favorite) but my sister pointed out that was rude. Then she proposed witches or were-beasts, HER PERSONAL FAVORITE! That little…So in an effort to avoid an all out war we reached an unsatisfactory compromise: Ghosts

Why Ghosts? Well they did open the genre, once upon a time all horror and supernatural fiction was lumped up in the ghosts’ stories category.

So then let’s discuss Ghosts, we are faced once more with the definition problem. If you turn to folklore some of them old spirits are virtually indistinguishable from vamps, demonic entities and even some nature sprites. And part of the benefits of a definition is that you can actually distinguish the bloody thing from everything else that creation has in stock. So we are turning away from folklore from the time being.

As for ready made definitions there are bundles:

The spirit or soul of a person who has died, especially one which haunts a place which was of emotional significance to that person when living.

The personality of a person after his or her own death which is not directly tied to the soul or spirit. A sort of psychic memory-imprint.

The character or memory of some being or thing which has died or, if it was never alive, been somehow destroyed or disassembled, which nevertheless remains existent (and sometimes detectable) in a semi-corporeal form.

Even if you disagree with what has cost me hours of head splitting headaches we need a place to start so taking what seems to be the basic ideas then: Ghost is an incorporeal or semi-corporeal manifestation of a dead person.

Rereading the definition the dead and the incorporeal part is what causes me more trouble, but hey if it’s breathing or undead I’m sure you can put it in another drawer (check some of the creatures mentioned earlier), and if they are living and human then that would be more like astral projection. About the incorporeal… sure they might feel real for a while but at some point or another they are going to vanish in thin air so that’ll have to do for now.

Mind you demons, werewolves, vampires, and some other inhuman fit the bill of being a person for me so they could, under some circumstances, become ghosts.

Animated objects, skeletons and body parts count for me too if the thing animating them is incorporeal and non-demonic or magical. Collective entities are welcomed too.

#2 Mar 16th 2007, 6:05am
Mercurial Weather
Now for the criptozoologist intervention: How a culture envisions Ghosts has to do with the view they hold on an after life and, up to a point, with how they regard the soul survival issue.

I’m a smart girl so I’m wriggling my way out of discussing religion as much as I can. Most cultures agree that human beings have a soul; some even think they have several and most agree that it survives dead. About what happens to them once the human in question has kicked the bucket, there’s no accord but in general there seem to be two views on the subject: either they are supposed to go to some other place (whether it is a mere repository of souls like Hades or it has levels of fun and torture like Hell) and then ghosts are souls that get stuck in the transit or for some other cosmologies there’s some sort of reincarnation wheel and then ghosts are either renegades or outcasts that have drop off it.

As for finer categories well you have your crisis apparitions, your avenging ghosts and of course your possessed objects. Since, in spite of outward appearances, I really don’t enjoy monologue that much I’ll leave you to figure out those.

Still I would like to share part of my cultural baggage. I come from two cultures that agree on the first point of view, I’m choosing to draw my participation to the topic from just one of them first because I like it best and second because I think most people are familiar with the fire and brimstone Hell and cute Paradise, as well as with ghosts that get stuck because they had an untimely or gruesome dead.

Ok so for starters let’s talk about the soul. For most of the people who lived in the center of what it’s now Mexico in Prehispanic times the soul dwelled in the liver (ihiyotl) and was a vaporous substance that could abandon the body while the person still lived and definitely deserted it when the person died. Even now in some parts of the country the evil spirits also known as night winds are referred to as ijiyos.

As for the afterlife people got sent to different places according to the way they had died: Those men who had died in warfare or in sacrifice where the sun’s chosen and went to live at Tonatiuh’s eastern paradise where they turned into immortal birds that libated from the sun’s flowers. Women who had died at childbirth were called mocihuaquetzqui (brave woman) and were also chosen to live by Tonatiuh’s side but in his western paradise. They were also called divine women and they could turn into Cihuateteos who came to the earth in certain days, but those are closer to vamps than to ghosts so we’ll talk about them later. Those who had suffered a water related dead, had been struck by lighting or had died from a disease that was attributed to water were Tlaloc’s chosen. Tlaloc was the rain god and he took them to live in his paradise Tlalocan which was your average garden of delights.

All the rest went to Mictlan. In Aztec mythology, Mictlan was the lowest (ninth) level of the underworld, located far to the north. The king of Mictlan was Mictlantecuhtli. The queen was Mictecacihuatl. Other deities in Mictlan included Ciucoatl (who commanded the spirits called Cihuateteo), Acolmiztli, Chalmecacihuilt, Chalmecatl and Acolnahuacatl. These gods were usually represented by livers. Dead people who hadn’t been lucky enough to get hit by lighting had to pass through nine levels of trials that were supposed to last 4 years; there were complex funerary rites to help them succeed. For example a stone was usually put in the corpse’s mouth so they could drop it in the seventh level were wild beast that devoured the heart were said to live. The bodies were burnt to help the dead avoid freezing while they crossed a wasteland of cold winds, and dogs were habitual companions for they helped cross the raging river that was yet another level of the underworld.

Those chosen by Tonatiuh and Tlaloc had their own equally complicated funeral rites, if they weren’t followed to the letter something could go wrong and the soul could get lost. Hence ghosts didn’t exist solely because of ethical considerations but because of neglect when it came to inhumation. Also the Aztecs thought that the veil that divided life from dead was very tenuous; the dead could cross over in a number of dates through out the year so as you might imagine ghosts were to be expected.

Now for my favorite ghost story, it has been influenced by Christian beliefs that were brought by the Spaniards when they conquest Mexico. But still it has a lot of the elements that I’ve mentioned above. The weeping woman is said to be the spirit of a woman who drowned her sons and then committed suicide, as you might imagine that is the ultimate transgression for a woman in a culture that regards mothers with a high esteem. To make matters worst in most tales spun around this apparition the girl did it to take revenge on the father, out of vanity or out of greed. She is there after condemned to roam the earth weeping looking for her dead children without ever being able to find them. In some cases she is a crisis apparition, she is said to have appeared before the conquest and that she wept for the fall of the Aztec Empire much like a banshee would. In some cases she is an avenging ghost that drowns whoever crosses her path. In other tales she is a lonesome figure, more of an imprint, which roams the empty streets of the old town. I really like her story and that was the first ghosts’ tale my mother told me.

Welcome to the criptozoologist’s cabinet, share with us what you know or what you’ve dreamt about ghosts.

#3 Mar 16th 2007, 6:08am
The Ferrett
If you check out the TV show supernatural (which for it's point does have alot of fact in it) there are heaps of spirit-y types of things - like the death ward. OOOOh. Um. Yeah.
#4 Apr 23rd 2007, 7:14pm
Robbertomo Jerome Straightpen
God, I love that show.

Anyway, I like to think of ghosts as people who couldn't let go for any reason. Either they were murdered and wanted revenge, didn't want to leave their family behind, or were just too damn scared to pass on (poor bastards :)).

And not all ghosts are white and spooky, and not all are angry, mean, SOBs.

#5 May 26th 2007, 12:33pm

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