If that were the only cliche to try to avoid, we would be in business. However, as more and more stories are written, what was once original can become a little stale. Some of us (I include myself in this category) can't help but get ideas from other fantasy writers, but we all must remember that we're probably not the only ones to use that idea. Many ideas are so overused that they have become cliche.

This topic is specifically for the discussion of current cliches, their origins, and variations on each. Also for the discussion of any topics sparked by the cliche list. This is not a place to flame people on this site. Please stick to your own works, or published works, in your discussion.

Girlbrainiac

"That's just like Lord of the Rings" or;

"That's just like Harry Potter"

I don't want to diss either one of these series'. They are both incredible, but I see so many things these days that just look like they're a HP or LotR knockoff that it's sickening. So, I would personally state that any story that revolves around destroying an evil magical item or about attending magic school is out. So hardcore cliche that it makes the story vertually unreadable, no matter what other merits the piece might otherwise have.

Unfortunately, he had so many good ideas that people like to reuse them. The horrible magical artifact that needs to be destroyed, the evil tyrant intent on the distruction of the world for no apparent reason, these are his inventions. Many of his other devices, however, are recreations of mythology. Middle Earth itself gets its name from Midgard of Norse mythology.

Maybe the problem is that a lot of the fantasy stories we get are ultimately based on western European mythology. Maybe if we tried a different mythological base all of our stories would be completely different.

Girlbrainiac

Sorry Qlmmb2086, I always get the two confused because they're both usually associated with the Evil Overlord character who is flat and has little apparent motivation for anything he does other than the fact that he is insanely evil. (I also haven't read LotR in a while.)

Girlbrainiac

The Creation Story

The Hero and His Great Journey

The Evil and the Good

and

How Things Will Eventually End

For what it's worth, I think some writers have gone with the idea that the transformation is Mandatory and Unavoidable (or very nearly so) on the night of a full moon, but the rest of the time the werewolf can learn, with practice, to exercise his free will in only changing, human-form to wolf-form and back again, if and when he happens to feel like it. Although I'm no big expert on werewolf fiction . . .#26 Dec 05th 2006, 03:19PM

Spirithunter:

I am feeling quite inspired for whatever reason to write a short fic crammed with every cliche I can just to see how I can do. I mean more cliches than Eragon. :P That would be much fun.#27 Dec 05th 2006, 04:21PM

Becky Creighton:

Even more fun than making a completely cliched story is to put the most arrogant, annoying Mary-Sue conceivable in it. Yes, I'm looking at you, Arya. Here are some guidlines as to how to spot a Mary-Sue: (this is part of point 50)

-The status of her hair will remain the same throughout the entire series, curlers or no curlers.

-She is perfect and wise in every way. She's always the first to remember that most important long lost piece of the prophecy.

-She will always fall in love, with a Gary Stu. Why not make two flawless people pair up? They're PERFECT for each other!

-Why the heck would she need armour? Or weapons that have sharp edges, most of the time? She may be the all sensitive, just, honourable person, but she will manage to kill everything in her way, don't worry.

-Mary-Sue has the most desirable personality EVER.

-Waist, size 0. Hair length: VERY LONG. Contains a very nifty tint, even though nobody has invented hair dye yet.

-Her tragic past will reveal a dent in her personal defences (shock horror) but she will overcome that, don't you worry...

-...Not without the help of the dashing young warrior she falls for. Eventually.

-Mary-Sue is too cool to get embarrassed or miss a flaw in her fighting/diplomacy techniques.

I hope this helps on how to spot Mary-Sues within your own characters. I did, when I discovered my character Songja was going to turn into a bimbo if I didn't sort out things fast.#28 Dec 06th 2006, 02:59AM

Spirithunter:

I'll do what I can with those guidelines if I write that story. *grins* Though some of them won't count, since I'll probably have elemental people from this world, so they can have pink hair for all I care. (Except I do, so they won't.) Yes, it'll probably be about four kids (likely chosen ones of a prophecy) with elemental powers who are from this world but must go to that world to stop the pointlessly evil maniac who now wants to kill the main charries to take over the world. Once the details are worked in... yes. Cliche funness.#29 Dec 06th 2006, 05:00PM

RubyXSerpent:

You know, that's what I've always wanted to do! -grin- Howabout you do the four kids and the elements, and I'll do the orphan saves the world, while getting the girl?

Oh, and let's not forget how he becomes a master swordsman in about three paragraphs.#30 Dec 06th 2006, 05:11PM

Qlmmb2086:

"Here's a sword. Woah, you're a natural, kid!"#31 Dec 06th 2006, 05:40PM

Spirithunter:

Yes. And how they suddenly become masters of magic in less than four. Hmm... *rifles through List* They can be half-elves... who come upon some (oldish/Bromish) warrior-type guy who guides them on their journey... black-and-white... larger-than-life fire-breathing dragons of certain death to those who face them... some orc-type creature (lots of stories have them, like Robert Jordan's Trollocs)... I know there's more that can be thrown in. Suggestions?#32 Dec 06th 2006, 08:49PM

Continuing the discussion from the cliche list...

I know what you mean. Seriously, no one can learn master magic and swordsmanship in two sentences!

I'll start that cliche filled fic when I have time.

[Edited to put in all of the conversation from the cliche list. Hope you don't mind RubyX. Girlbrainiac]

But yeah, I can't stand "natural born X" characters. Even if you've got "the gift" you still have to learn how to use it.

And why can't a girl get hurt? They go into battle and come out unscathed! WTH is that?! I mean, it's okay with anime (in my opinion) but if you're aiming to be realistic, let the damn woman get wounded, dirtied, and bloodied, like some one in another topic said.

What about cliches in archetypes? Assassins, for example. I'm a little wary whenever I see a character introduced as an assassin, because they're probably emotionless (or witty), devastatingly good-looking, and unmatched in terms of skill despite their young age. No one writes about the weak, fledgling assassins still scrambling their way up the crime ladder, or if they do, they're not called assassins. They're thieves. But I'm not saying you couldn't pull off a good assassin fic. I'll admit that they're very interesting to have as a character, if only because the nature of their occupation promises that you'll have all the angsting material you'll ever need. I just want to see more stories about that underdog assassin still struggling morally.

By the way, am I the only one who feels compelled to strangle something when I see that the word "assassin" has been misspelled in a summary, title, or the story itself?

What I'm wondering is this: does just having a certain archetype in the story make it a turnoff for readers? For example, at the moment I'm mapping out a fic with a ninja and a samurai as the main characters. Samurai don't seem to be overdone just yet, but ninja are another matter. It gets worse: my ninja character is female. No thanks to the popularity of Naruto (which I'm a big fan of, I'll admit, even though their ninja can get away with wearing bright colors, walk around in clothing that easily identifies them as spies and killers, and use techniques that literally summon talking animals the size of mountains), ninja seem to me more like characters to ridicule nowadays. Or maybe it's just difficult to pull off a believable ninja? At this point, I'm still wondering if I should even bother writing a story with a ninja in it.

I really don't think that ninja have been overdone at all... At least, not authentic ninja. I'm also always in the mood for a good samurai story... The operative word being 'good'. True, a lot of people use "samurai" nowadays, but not really in the form of true samurai, with a code, and their honor... And an actual personality.

Girlbrainiac

I don't think I've ever encountered an "authentic" ninja on FP, but I see a lot of parodies, so there must be something about ninja that's irresistibly mockable. What bothers me about ninja in amateur fiction is how they're usually portrayed:

- Killing mass numbers of enemies with ease. Granted, they were taught to kill, and granted, in fantasy they're associated with superhuman feats of agility and murdering skill, but see... They're supposed to be stealthy. So stealthy that no one ever realizes they were there until long after their job is finished, and even then the enemy is not supposed to know a ninja did it. There is nothing sneaky about slaughtering 20 guys in the middle of a mission. You cannot hide 20 bodies. Even if you made the bodies disappear, you cannot explain why 20 guards are suddenly AWOL. Your ninja killing 20 people just to prove his badassness and for the chance to narrate all the blood flying around is not cool. When a ninja is caught, he doesn't take out every person who comes running. He flees. Escapes. Vanishes into the night.

- The cliche ninja always carries two specific weapons: a katana and shuriken (or throwing stars, as some people call them), and commonly nothing else. That saddens me, because I find ninja weapons really interesting, and they could be worked into a great variety of plotlines if only the author would take ten minutes to conduct some Google research. Even Wikipedia is a wonderful source there. The action gets old when all you have is a "samurai sword" (which is supposed to be too long to swing properly indoors, where the ninja is expected to do most of his work. Try a knife, f00.) and some pointy projectiles. Poison a victim with a kakute (spiked ring). Get your mitts on a shoge (chain-sickle) and throttle somebody. Learn the difference between fukibari (darts) and makibishi (caltrops). It's not just about that cool Japanese sword that ten-year-old boys drool over.

- Why are they always so damn cocky? A smart-mouthed ninja ties back to the "witty assassin" cliche and fractures the "stealth" rule.

- Not really a problem with the ninja himself, but his companions. Personally, I'm baffled when I see characters named "Katherine" and "Xavier" alongside Ayame and Takeshi, especially when Katherine and Xavier are born from a local family in the village just like Ayame and Takeshi. Am I supposed to believe the ninja clan decided to pluck a western name out of thin air and gave it to their child? How many good serious fantasy fics taking place in a medieval Europe setting have you seen with a Japanese-named character in it? So random.

Sadly, I have a thing for cliché assassins and thieves… What can I say? They’re usually where all my favorite banter comes from! And I have a love of the cold personalities. Everyone has their guilty pleasures, mine’s a rogue. That might just be because I’m such a big fan of Garrett from the Thief games. And Artemis Entreri from RA Salvatore’s books. … And Varden from the Interloch webcomic… And Casper from the Darken webcomic… Wow, I really do have a thing for rogues.

And speaking of rogues, that’s what the modern day equivalent of a ninja is in fantasy. They both fill the same nich, if not in different way. But because they both serve the same purpose, people only use ninjas based off their reputation of being “uber assassins” and saying that defeating a squad of them is a feat.

Really, I think a cliché is alright if you can play it well. The only kind of BAD cliché in my mind are the ones that are used badly and dully.

And, yes, I don't have a thing against incorporating a few cliches into your story... AS LONG AS YOU MAKE THEM YOUR OWN. Make it new and exciting, not the stale old bread that some stories have become.

Girlbrainiac

And I love Kyou Kara Mao, too. It's not really cliche, because it's believable. Things are not going to be the same everywhere you go, be it language, customs, manners, or food. That's one of the things I liked most about it right off.

Lilz

The idea is to sneak in in whatever clever way he can devise, do his job, then sneak out again.

Girlbrainiac

"Of course."

She told me that there was this beautiful princess, and I began to guess where the story would go, but then she said that there was this evil snake who came up to the princess, bit her and she DIED. (At which point her eyes expanded and her face came very close to my own. It was creepy) I was pretty shocked that she could be so morbid, and that she would think up such a plot twist. Then she said that the princess's MOTHER, not prince, didn't want her to die, so she got the healing potion, and the princess drank it and came back to life!

"And she married the prince and they lived happily ever after?" I prodded.

She nodded.

I have NO idea where she picked up that story, but it makes me wonder that such little children and think up stories like that. I may speak differently if I had such a little sister of my own, but for now it still amazes me.

~Rain

Lilz

And isn't calling younger people creative a cliche in itself? :P I just remember how disappointed I was when I ended up working with 3-year-olds at a daycare. XD Not to say that they don't tend to be more open with ideas...

Fun with cliches has been something I've been doing recently. Like, with all that black you see all over, I've been wondering why characters have been wearing it so much. To be cool. Well, how do you stop them from wearing so much of it? Make a character who can turn the color black on cloth into a dangerous, burning substance. Thus, Tint the color mage was born.

Now to random cliches to rib... What's with making all these characters young? Why not more characters in their thirties? I'd like to see more characters that are sure of their place in the world... set in their ways and stubborn. They're much more fun to take out of their comfort zone than children are because children tend to be more adaptable.

Kids are, let's face it, idiots when it comes to anything that requires experience. It's also a lot more interesting (and believable) to give your character an odd set of skills based on former professions as well as their current one. Some authors insist on giving their youg charactters all kinds of skills, but have very little reasonable explanation as to how they acquired and became world class in a certain skill, other than that they're quick to learn (WAY overused). With an older character, you have more years for them to develop different skills betweeen switching jobs once in a while, or just keeping up practice in certain skills.

For example, I have a thirty year old woman who was trained as a thief beginning at age five, and an assassin beginning at ten. She made her first kill at fifteen, and was in the top spot in the guild by the time she was twenty. At twenty-two, she met with a major life-changing internal crisis, ran away from the guild and joined a convent. She still has many of the skills from when she was a thief and assassin, but she now knows how to tend to wounds with herbal medicines, how to tend to emotional wounds, and has a great deal of sympathy for the poor (as she started poor herself).

My two cents.

Girlbrainiac

Hmmm... I don't get what's with dungeons. Whenever I've written fantasy I've always had actual prisons, though one had a reputation similar to that of Alcatraz or Guantanamo Bay. There've been prisons for ages and not all prisons have dungeons. What about a prison galley for instance? Or convict prisons in colonial places?

Tolkien's characters were all old. Aragorn was 87, though that translates to mid-twenties I suppose. Merry and Pippin were the youngest on the whole adventure, having just come of age. Frodo was in his fifties. And the Elenium and the Tamuli by David Eddings (and several other similar stories by him and others) have featured the clichéd jaded old soldier, which is just as annoying as boy hero imo and lends itself to many other genres. ESPECIALLY annoying is that they often seem to win the girl, even though she's often more than thirty years younger than him. I'll admit this does happen in real life on occasion, but seriously. Why can't he be content with an older woman instead of loving the girl he's helped raise. That creeps me out.

I guess many characters are young because in the past a lot of fantasy readers have been younger. This might not be true any longer, but it has been. Writers are trying to make their characters relate to the readers and vice versa. Besides, it's also quite inconvenient to have your character suffering from arthritis of brittle bones, or some other such age-related illness. It's interesting in secondary characters, but tends not to work well with the protagonist.

I think an arthritic character would be interesting to see once in a while. Give them a true physical illness and see how differently they handle certain situations than the youth in peak physical condition. I think that a lot of authors shy away from the physically unfit characters in fantasy just because it's inconvenient for them to try and write.

Girlbrainiac

While toned down colors make sense, black is a color that’s a little hard to make. Not to mention, it would fade quickly in a medieval setting.

And, using martial arts belts can be a bit confusing. You see, different types have different belt systems. the most commonly known/used one is the Shao-Lin Kung-Fu system that goes White, yellow, blue, green, brown, black. As soon as you have a black belt for a year, you become a first degree black belt, a second degree black belt after two years, etc.

But, there are several other systems that are both easier and harder to rank up in. My old Tai-Kwan-Do class had two bands in the next color in order to succeed to the next, different shades, and even purple added in.

Don’t mind that little rant, that’s another of many subjects I have interest in.

Honestly, I have to say kids are a lot easier for people to use because they aren’t masters of whatever subject they’re studying, therefore the author doesn’t have to be a master of it themselves to make a character with some interest in it. While annoying to people who have studied and participated in these things (you have no idea how annoyed I get with people who generically pick a lock. Epically if they only use a toothpick or a needle. It just doesn’t work that way), it’s a good excuse that I admit I use often.

I think an arthritic character would be interesting to see once in a while. Give them a true physical illness and see how differently they handle certain situations than the youth in peak physical condition. I think that a lot of authors shy away from the physically unfit characters in fantasy just because it's inconvenient for them to try and write.

Well, most authors write what they know (or at least can relate to a friend about) and some illnesses just can not be recreated acurately in a story. There was this story I read in one of my classes that infuriated me because it was written from a train of thought style for an autistic kid. I have several friends who are slightly autistic, and a younger cousion who has downs syndrome. I would never believe them to think in such a stupid manner. Now, little handicaps people can all relate to such as not being able to use a hand that's broken or arthritis is a diffrent story, but that's one of the main reasons I try to avoid using diseases and defects I don't personal know someone who has it.

I'm working on two different characters with problems because of past injuries. One is missing her right eye. The other has a weak leg because it didn't set quite right when it was broken before.

For Lana, the one with the missing eye, the research is rather simple. Just close or cover one eye and try to walk around and look at everything, throw things, etc. First off, her range of vision is cut in half. If something approached her on the right, from behind, she wouldn't be able to see it until it got slightly in front of her, or she turned her head in that direction. Her depth perception is a bit off, so she wouldn't ever be able to throw knives accurately (she can judge the distance by how large objects are in comparison to each other, but other than that...) She sometimes trips on things that are out of her range of vision.

For Jean's leg... She can walk, with a limp, granted, but she can walk. RUNNING is another matter. She can get her legs to move a bit faster, but she has to watch out for doing longer strides. She can't put too much of her weight on it, or for too long, or it will collapse beneath her. She absolutely refuses to use a cane, because it makes her look weak, but she does occasionally use rails, chairs, tables, bars, people, etc. for support when she needs it. It's when climbing that she has the biggest problems. Her bum leg basically gets dragged up the ladder by her other working appendages. With stairs, she has to use the rail. She would NEVER be able to shimmy up a rope all by itself because she doesn't have the strength of arm to use anything less than all four limbs.

Girlbrainiac

Now, I am strongly opposed to the idea of assassin guilds. Any major network of assassins the common public can contact, and who have a bloody symbol is just plain stupid. They would be hunted down by authorities so quickly. Not to mention, a guild of assassins would mean there'd have to be a LOT of people wanted dead in the city for them to keep a good income. And, if that were the case, then the security companies would be getting all sorts of money for protection, and research for changes would go into it. Fameous assassions make even less sense. A good assassin is one who won't be detected, thus won't be followed and tracked back to their clients. So, how do you get fameous, if the trademark of a job well done is not being known?

My former assassin had daggers that would leave a certain type of wound, The large puncture wound from the blade, then two small puncture wounds on either side from two sharp prongs at the end of the crosspiece. Few ever really knew who she was, what her true name was, nor what she looked like, but they always knew when she had struck.

I pretty much agree with the assessment of assassin's guilds... I don't employ any in my stories. All assassins work for several different criminal organizations. I can, however, see there being a state sanctioned assassin's guild if the culture works like that.

Girlbrainiac

But, I like the idea of assassins working only for crime lords. They'd have a MUCH easier time concealing their identity, though their employers might be found pretty quickly with the targets...

Hmm...how about an assassin's guild with only a few members whom only some people know about and dare not speak of for fear of being killed? And what if no one knows where said guild is, and contact the members very discreetly, so the authorities CAN'T lash back at them?

Hum... makes one wonder when witness protection programs came into place. If no one knew where the guild was, hwo on earth would they get new members when old ones were knocked off or retired? (I'd retire very early if I were an assassin. Ten years of killing people and seeing the after maths of it would sure have a toll on you. And, people might be able to catch the members if they all go insane.)

Why couldn't authorities be able to lash back? Surely the people in charge would NOT like the idea of an assassin out there who could kill them, and would pay quite the reward for the found assassins.

Possibly an assassin's guild lives in one country(or whatever), and only accepts jobs for enemy countries? Not sure if they'd still be assassins then, though, and not some sort of elite secret service.

Lilz

True, but crime lords are harder to retaliate against when they have their whole organization around them. Just look at the way the mob works, lol.

Hmm...how about an assassin's guild with only a few members whom only some people know about and dare not speak of for fear of being killed? And what if no one knows where said guild is, and contact the members very discreetly, so the authorities CAN'T lash back at them?

Hum... makes one wonder when witness protection programs came into place. If no one knew where the guild was, how on earth would they get new members when old ones were knocked off or retired? (I'd retire very early if I were an assassin. Ten years of killing people and seeing the after maths of it would sure have a toll on you. And, people might be able to catch the members if they all go insane.)Maybe they line people up- everyone finds themselves a replacement or two fairly early on, and then when they retire or die, their successor takes over.

Heehee. I like the idea of the guilds taking kids off the street, teaching them to kill and steal from an early age. When they do good things for the guild, they get rewarded with better pay, better privileges, higher rank, etc. When an assassin is knocked off, there will be a younger assassin to take their place. And the only way assassins are allowed to 'retire' is to die. Anyone that tries to leave is hunted down and killed.

Why couldn't authorities be able to lash back? Surely the people in charge would NOT like the idea of an assassin out there who could kill them, and would pay quite the reward for the found assassins.

True, but if no one knows who the assassin is, even if they know who they work for, it's kind of hard to find someone who's used to staying hidden.

Possibly an assassin's guild lives in one country(or whatever), and only accepts jobs for enemy countries? Not sure if they'd still be assassins then, though, and not some sort of elite secret service.

Heh. What I meant by state sanctioned assassin's guilds is that perhaps the country has an allowance for retribution against someone that has wronged you. In that case, you go to the assassin's guild and order a hit on the guy. No interference on the part of the law.

Just had to clear that one up :P

The mob is an interesting thing, considering they only rose to the power they have because of the 18th amenment, and the public's willinglyness to put up with them. After a while (when it was no longer in effect) they no longer had a need for them, but they had had such a good hold in their standings, they couldn't be destroyed (at least, in the US)

Heehee. I like the idea of the guilds taking kids off the street, teaching them to kill and steal from an early age. When they do good things for the guild, they get rewarded with better pay, better privileges, higher rank, etc. When an assassin is knocked off, there will be a younger assassin to take their place. And the only way assassins are allowed to 'retire' is to die. Anyone that tries to leave is hunted down and killed.

Taking kids off the street at an early age is a good idea, since it's a way of life for them. Though, some events an assasasin will witness will be a bit scaring, and could some serious personality/mental damage, making them MUCH easier to find in the general public.

I just bring this up because a lot of people even in the police force end up retiring early because of what the witness, and because they arn't fit enough to keep up with the compition. One story that's always stuck with me was my former teacher who was a lawyer for children's rights. She once had to defend a client who had killed his own kid and was wailing, "I want my baby back!" through out the whole trial. I'm guessing that only comes from people with safe, well established childhoods, but even people who havn't had the best of experiances could be mortified by some of the stuff they'll witness. Everyone has someone they love, such as a brother, a friend, a boss, etc, and can therefore be dramatically effected by other assassins themselves.

True, but if no one knows who the assassin is, even if they know who they work for, it's kind of hard to find someone who's used to staying hidden.

Money and survival can be quite the motivators, depending on the person. No one can cover every step they've taken. The maker of their weapons could be found if they leave behind even a needle at the scene of the crime. If they use uncommon poisions, they can be tracked down by finding the manufactorer or sorce of the poison.

Possibly an assassin's guild lives in one country(or whatever), and only accepts jobs for enemy countries? Not sure if they'd still be assassins then, though, and not some sort of elite secret service.

Heh. What I meant by state sanctioned assassin's guilds is that perhaps the country has an allowance for retribution against someone that has wronged you. In that case, you go to the assassin's guild and order a hit on the guy. No interference on the part of the law.

But your stuck with the laws with the land your going into if you get caught in the act. Though, an orginization in another country would be extremely hard to track, even if they leave evidence. Even more so if they're a few contries away. Magic transportation would help a lot there.

And, thanks for setting me straight on the terms. :P Serial killer sadly always makes me think of 'cerial killer,' someone who kills Trix and Frosted Flakes. Just like necromancer makes me think of 'neck romancer.'

Well, depends on how the thieves guild works. A place where theieves can go to sell their stuff on mass scale would be shut down pretty easily. But, a place where huge jobs and the like are planned and funded (for, like, 75% profits) would make good sense to me. As long as they switched up their places and ways.

Sadly, I think theft would commonly work on the same scale theft works in the modern era. Step one, watch a house. Stepo two, wait for someone to leave. Step 3: get in with out setting off any defenses, and get anything you can carry, then run away.

And they're usually in cities where the 'law' is safely embedded in their pocketbooks.

Taking kids off the street at an early age is a good idea, since it's a way of life for them. Though, some events an assasasin will witness will be a bit scaring, and could some serious personality/mental damage, making them MUCH easier to find in the general public.

I just bring this up because a lot of people even in the police force end up retiring early because of what the witness, and because they arn't fit enough to keep up with the compition. One story that's always stuck with me was my former teacher who was a lawyer for children's rights. She once had to defend a client who had killed his own kid and was wailing, "I want my baby back!" through out the whole trial. I'm guessing that only comes from people with safe, well established childhoods, but even people who havn't had the best of experiances could be mortified by some of the stuff they'll witness. Everyone has someone they love, such as a brother, a friend, a boss, etc, and can therefore be dramatically effected by other assassins themselves.

Yep. Some would go crazy, I think, some would become emotionally distant, cold... Still, it being a way of life and all... Some of the adverse effects might be brought down just a bit.

Girlbrainiac

See, the way my assassin's guild is this; you find out where its located by any means, if you want to join THAT bad; you appeal to the boss; he tests you;you're in!; It's pretty simple just based on that, but once you get down to it, it's darn near impossible. Only the best can get in. (They don't kill the ones that fail, either. They go back to their regular ways of life--this is probably how all the info on the assassin's guild leaked out in the first place.)

Second, they're not cruel people. It's business. Someone contracts them, and they kill the one they're asked to kill. Then the buyer pays up. It works the same for the thieve's guild, and every other guild in my world. The only exception is the fact that you're not allowed to speak of the assassin's guild, for fear of being killed. The assassin's like their secrecy, but they gotta make a living.

And the assassin's are either excessively brilliant, or they're completely WHACK. There are a few exceptions, though...

My two cents on the matter.

Girlbrainiac

And, if it's any consolation, the thieve's guild DOES kill the ones who fail their recruitment tests. They also meet the make the canidate wear a blindfold during the interview of sorts, to test them in different ways including working in darkness and not allowing them to see the guild members. And, only four people in the history of my series have been allowed to resign from the theive's guild. The rest are either killed or forced to stay. But, same principles of the assassin's guild. The members can marry outside the guild, live outside the guild, have a second job outside the guild, and so on...

What do they do?

Kinda obvious. XD Steal under the orders of the person who calls on them. They don't keep the things they steal, they steal it for someone else and then get payed for doing so.

How many people are in charge?

Each guild in my world is run by a Constable. Constable Sparrix (Lawl. XD) runs the thieve's guild. (I'm truly aware, that in RL, a constable is a pretty low position, but in my world, it's the highest position one can hold. There are twelve true constables in my world, and they meet once a month to discuss all of the world. There is no king/higher power/other thing above them. They work together.

How is it decided who is incharge?

The people of the guild/city chooses their leader. Sparrix was chosen as constable simply because he was pretty. XD JK. It's because he showed himself to be a capable leader who was ruthless and ambitious in what he did.

Really, stealing stufff dosn't take too much skill.

It really depends on what they're stealing, you see? And, the harder the robbery, the higher the pay.

Most uber hard things to steal would take months of survalance, mapping of times and guard shifts, the knowledge of what's all between you and the object, the figuring of how you'd get past those defenses, figuring just how long that'd take and when you'd have that much time. A second plan if the shift changes, etc.

But, a common theft involves a few simple steps. Take rock. Throw through window. Run in. Grab anything that's shiney. Run out. Run the heck away.

Most theft that occurs is the second choice, since it costs next to nothing, there is much less planning involved, and ANYONE can do it.

Oh, another question. What of people who steal who ARN'T a part of the thieves guild?

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