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Evil Minion Number 2
Topic: Manga and comics: A personal pet peeve
Don’t take offense a this little rant: It’s not directed at anyone in particular. Just a pet peeve of this Minion with her goals in the future.

Ok, so, what is so hard about saying graphic novel? Or even comic? Why does everyone think ‘manga’ is so superior to the true meaning of the word? Is it the common style that has occurred? Is it the view on comics that our culture forces on us? Why do we have to use that word which is just as easy to type out as ‘comic’?

I’ve spent my entire life fascinated by the idea and art of pictures in sequence telling a story, a form we here in America call comics.

I find it interesting what introducing Japanese cartoons into our culture has caused. The idea that animation is not just for kids. This idea has been all over the world ever since the concept came, everywhere but the US, where animation is considered strictly “child’s material.” Yet, our views have changed now that the Japanese animation we refer to as “anime” has become main stream. Did you know in 1999, it was still considered, “Japanamation” by most people?

And yet, people hold this notion that drawing in that specific style entitles then to be better than the other styles that have been made over the years. Yet, for as long as their have been comics in America, there have been “Underground comics” that have tackled more adult themes than the classic super hero comic we all know. The most famous of these underground comics is “Johnny the Homicidal Maniac” which is indeed, not for kids. But most people refuse to refer to this as a comic.

I know for a fact, that a few years ago, I would be quite offended when someone referred to Ranma½ as a comic, and not by it’s ‘proper’ title as a manga. But, as I grew up and started searching for more influences for my own goals to be a “manga” artist, I learned that there is very little difference in underground comics and hardcore manga beyond their structure. This became even more evident when I read a book by a world-changing author known as Scott Mccloud who analyzed the subtle elements of comic books and manga, showed the differences in their style, and explained their reasons for success.

I know that this forum is about writing novels, and not about creating comics, I just noticed the common reference to ‘manga’ and it ended up stroking a button. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Japanese comics, they’re actually one of my favorites, I just dislike them behind held as a media of their own, and nor a genre of an even larger media with even more potential.

Hey, look at that rant, it's huge! Guess I went a little overboard.

#1 Jun 08th 2007, 4:49pm
Running Sunrise
*applauds politely*
#2 Jun 11th 2007, 6:49pm
Evil Minion Number 2
Oh dear... How'd that get there? I don't even remember submitting it...
#3 Jun 14th 2007, 5:48pm
LandUnderWave
*shrugs* The only real difference I see between manga and comics, is that the manga is published in large-paperback-novel size. That's really about it. Oh, and 'graphic novels' or 'comics', are usually in colour.

Lilz

#4 Jul 09th 2007, 7:03pm
Evil Minion Number 2
Actually, a good number of comic books/graphic novels are still in black and white, at least in the US, Japan, and Korea. Most who remain in black and white do it for style, others do it to keep on the deadline and to save money.
#5 Jul 09th 2007, 8:35pm
Nichol1
My first love has and probably always will be American (Western) comics, and it definitely annoys me when people assume they're inferior to Japanese manga. It's stupid to assume that something is better just because it's foreign (or specifically, Japanese). 90% of everything is crap! And yes, that includes manga and anime, and yes, comics, too.

There are stylistic differences between American-style comics and Japanese manga, but this is lessening because both styles are feeding off one another. Manga tends to make more use of negative space, for example. However, the MASTER of black and white is and always will be Frank Miller (his Sin City is simply spectacular from a purely art perspective, putting aside any feelings on plot, etc.) and he works every centimeter of negative space and every drop of color for all it's worth. Coming as I do from an American comics background, the staticness of manga annoys me, the way each page seems to linger over a character's every facial expression and every sweatdrop. I'm like, "get to point, where's the plot, the action?" There are some manga I really, really love, such as Samurai Champloo and Demon Ororon. I do get defensive over my beloved comics, mostly because I feel they are unfairly maligned. A typical argument with someone who hates comics (often sight-unseen!) goes like this:

1. Comics are childish and stupid! Rebuttal: Comics are an evolving art, and there are countless stories in varied kinds of genres and art styles. A lot of comics are anything but "kid's stuff". Maus won a Pulitzer Prize. Other books that are definitely "for grownups" include the entire Vertigo line, Daredevil, Nicieza's Thunderbolts, Jenkins' Inhumans and Age of Bronze.

2. Well, there's no comics with strong female/gay/ethnic minority characters. Rebuttal: You can find any kind of protagonist across a wide variety of titles. Some suggested titles featuring protagonists and/or main characters that are female, gay, or an ethnic minority are Promethea, Strangers in Paradise, Y the Last Man, Manhunter, Runaways, [i[Hellblazer[/i]...

3. Comics have ugly artwork with malformed steroid monsters in spandex! Rebuttal: There's as many artists and art styles in comics as there are plots and characters. Artists such as David Mack, Frank Miller, Salvador Larocca, Marko Djurdjevic, George Perez, Amanda Conner, and Bill Sienkiewicz are just a few artists who create amazing, and extremely varied, work.

4. Well, well, well -- um, comics aren't funny anymore! They're supposed to have that BIFF! POW! action! Rebuttal: Ah, perhaps you stuck your head in the door in the "grim n gritty" 90s and ran screaming! There's a lot of excellent titles with some awesome action and humor. I would recommend Preacher, Cable and Deadpool, Nextwave, She-Hulk, and X-Factor.

And then we're back around to comics being childish and silly again.

American comics, especially the Big Two, Marvel and DC, also offer something manga titles can't: a huge and very old shared universe. Both companies have been around since the 1930s in one form or another, and they both have literally hundreds of thousands of characters inhabbiting their respective universes, interacting with each other, living, dying, and telling stories together. It's an absolute DREAM for someone who loves continuity **. For example, in the ongoing Immortal Iron Fist series, we meet a character who turns out to be John Aman, aka Amazing Man, who had his own title back in 1939! Despite how clunky and sometimes continuity problem-ridden these gigantic shared universes can be, it's a goldmine of concepts and characters with decades of backstory.

#6 Mar 22nd, 12:21am
Girlbrainiac
I find American comics harder to get into just because I have no clue where to begin. If I wanted to read some Batman or X-Men comics, for example... Would I start with the oldest? What about alternate universes? Do I have to be familiar with the whole universe just to enjoy it? Also, walking into a comic book store is rather forbidding for the uninitiated. You have no clue what you're doing, and it shows.

With Manga, you pick up the first book, then the next, then the next. It's very easy to work out for the uninitiated, and the Universe of whatever series you pick up is basically just in that series. It's rather linear. Also, you can find more of it in a regular book store so it's much less forbidding to those new to the genre.

So... Unless I have a friend who's totally obsessed with American comics who lets me borrow some and explains stuff to me, I don't think I'll ever really get into them.

#7 Mar 22nd, 12:24pm
Nichol1
There's tons of excellent series that aren't connected in any way to the gigantic shared universes. Almost all the Vertigo titles (Hellblazer being an exception) exist in their own worlds. I also recommend Marvel's Supreme Power which is sort of a reinvention of the DCUniverse, but with an extremely realistic twist. Hyperion is the "Superman"; he's a little baby alien who crashlanded on Earth and was found by a corn-fed Kansas farm couple -- but that didn't last long before the black helicopters swooped in and he was raised by the US government to be the perfect American and their loyal, powerful secret weapon. Nighthawk is the "Batman", a black man who's parents were murdered in a hate crime and who holds Malcolm X-style beliefs. Zarda is the "Wonder Woman", a mysterious and beautiful woman who has many secrets. Supreme Power takes place in its own self-contained world, and it's an excellent and intelligent story that I highly recommend.

The mega-universes of the Marvel and DC can be daunting for the uninitiated, but a lot of people fall in love with the history and depth of them. It's almost impossible to get bored with them, because you keep discovering characters and storylines that you never knew existed if you're only familiar with the comics from the animated television shows or the movies. If you're curious about Marvel but the backstory seems too daunting, try Runaways, which is set in the Marvel Universe but is largely self-contained, and can help introduce you to the world.

The only time you really need to understand the alternate universes is in the X-titles. In all the others, it's not too big a deal.

#8 Mar 22nd, 1:15pm
Evil Minion Number 2
The fun thing about American comics is you can pretty much pick them up anywhere and still enjoy them. They tend to explain imporant events from issue to issue, with both inturuptions to the plotline, but again, the ability to pick them up pretty much form anywhere. Reading them from the start is next to impossible now-a-days, though you can get quite a few of the older issues in Marvel's "Esseential" series.
#9 Mar 22nd, 2:02pm

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