We have a different definition of an open ending. Taking your example.

The dust settles and the dragon looks on to its victim. The knight was badly wounded by still alive. The dragon smiled in satisfaction and turned to leave the wounded knight. "Now, we are even, great knight." It snorted as it disappear.

This ending does offers closer to the fight and a victor has been declared. But, why did the dragon attack and what does the dragon meant when it said, they were even? This is my definition of an open ending. A mystery still lingers and you are left to fill in the gasp until the author chose to fill them.

I just wanted to show a clear example of an open ending with no closure. Your example is also an open ending, but one where one plot line (the battle) is concluded but another isn't (the back story/plot). This is still an open ending, though some readers would like to fill in the gaps themselves and others would be disappointed.

I would say an open ending is one with no sense of closure in one or more plot lines.

@Distilled about your problem

Sorry, I don't really think I can help that much. My only advice is to somehow separate the two scenes visibly, or make a clear not of it when she wakes up etc etc. Eventually the reader will catch on, and perhaps get disoriented with the main character?

ie:

The dragon was about to eat Susy until her teacher shouted "Susan! Are you paying attention?". With a bolt, Susan sat upstraight, now in her classroom.

Or something. My example sounded much better in my head. I think this area you want help with, though, is a test-and-try thing and see what works. Best of luck! :D

@Endings

I remember reading a book (swedish one, I think. Called Anarkai) and what happened was that the main character got to experience a girlffreidn and a best friend, basically.

But in the end, after summer vacation, it was as if it had never happened. That best friend of his ditched him and I have no clue what happened to the girl. I felt that wasn't satisfactory. I mean...I just read a whole book about something that doesn't even matter now? Wow. Thanks.

Do you guys these types of endings bring closure? (this type of ending = everything that happened in the book doesn't matter in the end) It isn't open-ended, but it lacks serious closure for me. But I did adore the book back then (except for the ending) so if you guys have another perspective on this matter please share.

Thanks for the advice, I guess as writers all we can do is polish something until it works. If I try really hard and can't make it fit within the story then I'll find another way of linking.

@ endings

What a depressing story. That's not an open ending, just an awful one. Maybe if the character realised that while he has nothing to show for what happened, it's the journey and experience that meant so much and he will always have the memories. I think that an ending like that can work if it's spun the right way, but it just sounds like the author was lazy the way you describe it.

Maybe if the character realised that while he has nothing to show for what happened, it's the journey and experience that meant so much and he will always have the memories.

Well, I think you'd have to be careful with those types of endings. It is very easy to have readers feel "Wow, I read all this for nothing? Nothing happened? He's back to the way he was? Geez. Thanks. Never reading from you again!"

Valuable lessons, like you said, is one thing to make it "right", but even so I am a bit reluctant to it. From a reading perspective it can be hard to take in, eventhough it may make sense. Haha, perhaps a sequel would be due then? ^^;

I am only so critical to this kind of ending if only because I have written it once. I felt I really should have made a greater foreshadowing and all to make the ending not seem so empty. But that's another story! :p

(har har)

@ Endings

All this topic tells me is that it's important to think of the logical ending to your story, then get others to read it. Put the story aside for a bit (anything from a week to a few months) and then read it yourself. Editing is important and I think some authors on this site are not willing to sacrifice their vision for a more satisfying ending. I used to do this, but then I realised that every great story has been edited and revised.

I think endings is finished for now... so I want to ask about settings.

What settings do you people think are over done. I read a great new horror story set in a bingo hall, the idea of that was enough for me to leave a lengthy review. Which settings would you consider "invisible settings" or settings which can be used over and over without sucking the life out of your story. How important do you think settings are when you plan a story? I personally find that a lot of classic backdrops are getting a little stale, things like 'warm old taverns in some medieval setting' or 'walking through the park by themself at night in a horror story'.

@D

As I am not much of a setting-knowledgeable person I can't really answer. However, my general view is that FP stories mostly center around high school environments. Books are more varied (depends on the genre a bit, though)

@Physical Flaws

Help me think of a bunch of general physical flaws that I (and others) may (or may not) use in the future. This can be helpful for everyone, because all our characters need the flaws (aside from the stereotypical, mystic scar).

- Exceptionally hairy (works better with men since there's a higher probability for it. But hairy women is something fiction lacks too haha)

- No chin (I think it looks weird when people have small chins, at least... Men in particular since they're supposed to have strong, masculine jaws)

- Mole! On the FACE, just to be a daily bother. And then some hair on it.

- Fat. It's common, it's easy to get. It's (fairly) easy to lose, if needed.

- Missing fingers. Particularly repulsive on females (since females generally are to be the beautiful one of the two genders)

- Eyes have different colors. Yeah I think it's ugly, at least. I am aware others think it's cool though.

Fill in the list if you want!

a huge nose. (or other huge facial feature)

small facial features.

as for two different eyes - i think it depends on the coloring of the person. if it's good coloring, it could be cool/beautiful. if it's bad coloring... then... ugh.

a large birthmark... you know, discoloration.

-Lefty

- Teeth that are yellow (common and all, too)

- Front teeth missing (I suppose this would fit more if the character is someone often in brawls)

- Teeth that are placed oddly (this could happen to anyone that never fixed with braces)

- Missing eye

- Missing ear! (owie)

- Broken nose

-a hunch

-lopsided arms and/or legs (This can happen if you lift too much prior to adulthood, especially during puberty. Bones have growth plates on either side which don't fully calcify (harden) until adulthood and too much strain on the muscle attached to the growth plate can cause the growth plate to be pulled off. The muscle then curls up, elastic like on the other end causing an unsightly bulge. This needs to be fixed via surgery (otherwise the entire limb is unusable as the muscle is no longer attached to the bone on one end) but even surgery does not fix the growth plate completely, thus the bone will not be able to further elongate or grow, or at least not to it's full potential)

-knock-kneed

Haha, that was awesome, Lucy!

- Rashes / Very prone to rashes

- Dandruff! Especially bad on those with dark hair, as we all can tell.

- Too skinny. Most noticeable on men since women are pretty much required to be skinny nowadays.

- Big ears / Ears that stand out. Most noticeable on men since they have shorter hair

pidgeon toed.

pimply. (eeewww)

always looks dirty.

BAD BO!!! XD

-Lefty

Character flaws are fun...

- Excessive tattoos/ body modification (large stretchers - eww)

- Broken limbs (nothing quite like a character with an arm in a cast)

- Addicted to things like coffee, gum, smoking etc

- Acne scarring

- bad beards/stubble

- warts - not just on faces but hands etc

Don't forget to try personality flaws, they really can be fun to write

lactose intolerant, but favorite food is ice cream... O.o

-Lefty

really bad breath!

-Lefty

i guess braces could be considered a physical flaw.

dentures that always fall out. XD

long nails... (either fingernails or toenails)

did we already say... unnaturally pale skin? XD like that creepy waxy look...

-Lefty

- Short hair that always clumps together like it hasn't been washed in a while.

- Ear lobes that have been stretched out due to wearing heavy earrings too much.

- Lopsided boobs (very common).

- Thin, but with pockets of fat that look weird (like in the thighs or under the arms).

- Hanging skin from when the person was at a much heavier weight.

- Cleft lip (or hairlip)

- Facial tumors

abnormally long looking neck. (aaaagh, there was this guy at my school with THE LONGEST NECK i've ever seen! it was so scary! T_T)

those really large earrings that stretch out the lobe... O.o they're scary!

three nipples. yes, it's a real phenomenon. :)

-Lefty

sunken eyes

scabs

double chin

bad hair styles (skys the limit here)

Nose hairs (ew)

- dirty nails (I just don't dig it on people...)

- bad make-up

Though, as this topic seems to have died out, I will ask a new question in correlation to this.

What physical flaws do you usually give your characters? Please name them (the flaws, not the characters)!

I have the major weakness of never caring much of descriptions so I don't much focus on outward appearance either (yes I know, I should burn at the stake!). But these are what I can remember so far:

- androgynous appearance

- excessive scarring

and just the whole "time has taken its toll on this person making him/her look weary" sort of thing. I really need to broaden this horizon of mine! :o

How's the deal with the rest of you?

hmmm, I'll look at my characters:

Prominent chin (on a girl so it's not so hot)

Tiny crab-like eyes

Bad teeth

Broken nose

Gangly to the point of it being disgusting

fat

and the favourite flaw of all teen writers: ACNE

I've given them bad breath, addictions, anorexia thin bodies, hairloss, sunken cheeks, DIRTY hair, dirty general, bad smell, bad breath, bad socializing skills XD necrophilia(!!!), bad taste in clothes (i.e finding them in other peoples garbage), dirty feet, food pickiness, bad driving skills, androgynyous appearance, unshaved face, bad personality, *ponders* hmmm...knotty feeling skin XD And probably much much more.

I should do asthma sometime...and I look forward to dandruff, pigeon toes, excessive irrelevant talking, broken nose, missing fingers, snoring.

I marvel when people write bad traits but consider them good, like when they write about how the character does their make-up, intend for you to think "oh so hawt" but in reality you're thinking "ugh, that is REALLY UGLY, please, black lipstick is such a no-no".

I wonder what quirks everybody gives their characters! Things that bring them alive, such as them pouring pepper into their ketchup or oversalting everything, wearing different pairs of socks on each foot or whatever.

Ok character flaws I normally give are usually personality things, but I have used greasy hair, really thin body, scars, burn scars, fake eye (a nightmare to write because you always have to think of what they can see etc), balding, old people dressing like young people (saying things like "cowabunga"), grinding teeth, smoking, physically weak, excessive cracking of knuckles/other body parts. At the moment my character from CP is an alcoholic party animal who takes great joy in using her body to tease her male room mate. The roomy is also pale as a ghost and just watches TV/plays playstation constantly. If you're ever stuck, just think of someone you know (make sure they don't read it if it's bad XD).

None of my current story characters have quirks I pull specific attention to, but I do like to give them to my RP characters. Some of the ones I've used in the past are:

- A habit of beginning dialogue with "Um..." as part of a timid nature.

- Constantly seen walking around with a Pocky stick in her mouth.

- When leaving notes for her students, she adds postscripts with doodles of kittens meeting violent deaths.

Distilled: I love the cracking knuckles part! There are so many that do so. And the going bald...I know my bf has a fear of going bald because his dad is, so I think it's quite common.

Shdw: Gosh I would think the first two soooo annoying to read about XDDDD And pocky sticks end so fast o.O But the third one sounds brilliant

As for me, I had this character who always renewed his lipbalm, another who likes expensive shoes, several that smoke too much, one that is unfaithful quite often and comes backs and apologizes XD one who writes in his journal all the time, one who is paranoid because she thinks everybody hates her and a few who have quirks I only mention once or twice, like how they eat things or if they wear something special.

Shdw, that third one is awesomeness! I definitely hope that you wrote it well, though, because it could just be awkward and it's brilliance needs to be shown to the world! So you've won a free review from moi, should you actually have this story posted.

My characters rarely have quirks/ flaws/ anything notable whatsoever about them, because I don't tend to have much characterization (I'm SO awful at it...which is why I need to quit with first person in my longer stories, but whatever) but the ones I've used are

~Peanut shaped ears (because I find peanuts incredibly odd shaped)

~Excessive fear of violence

~Low self esteem (lame, but it was a Snow White retelling)

~Generally odd looking

~Suspected of being a demon

~Paranoid

I don't like traits that are said straight out ("she tucked her long blond-ish brown with a stripe of red hair behind her perfectly shaped ear, glancing up with her sapphire eyes") and thus don't have fun things like scars and facial features. And I don't have diseases, so I write them awfully!

But I've a question for you guys. I posted it in off topic and it turns out that that was the wrong place. So-- what are your pet peeves when reading other peoples' fp stories? (ex. Mary Sues, mid-story author's notes, excessive ! marks, band references, lack of plot, lameness of plot...) Yes, this means that I'm asking (begging!) you to rant. I'm working on a sekrit writing project, and need to know...

ah yes... the mid story author's notes. unless they're going for a parody or humor piece... i REALLY hate in story author's notes. if you're going to put the note there, it means that you didn't explain well enough in your writing. -_-;

well, unless the person is going for intrusive narrator... but then it's not an author's note - it SHOULD be the narrator butting into the story.

*sigh* i won't rant, though. XD

-Lefty

Empty writing is a pet peeve of mine.

He did this. She did that. That happened. This happened.

And all without any sort of suspense, emotion, or general interest portrayed! The few emotions mentioned are so cheap, anyhow, so it just feels like I just got a diet, super-mini-sized version of a real story. How am I supposed to care if the writing doesn't even SHOW me anything? It just TELLS me.

What? No one else is ranting? well I shall continue then!

Too Fast

I hate, hate, hate when in stories (ie, romance) the relationships (and thus: actions) happen all too quickly. They're staring at each other one minute, thinking the person is hot the next, and then totally overcome by jealousy if the newfound apple of their impaired eye as much as WATCH other women/men. How insecure do you have to be to get to that lowly point?! It's not realistic! (either that or I am just overly confident?). I can't keep up with that! Yes, yes, I know: "Frac, sometimes things just happen". Well, they just happen a damn lot in fiction and I think we need to have logic and reason to just "happen", instead!

Gosh. I am totally reminded by this one story I read on here. I tried to offer good concrit but dammit the plot and characters were already doomed.

May I also state how I loathe love triangles? They never really have a satisfactory outcome, do they?

Listing their clothing

As soon as garments are put into the story (usually around the time when they say something like "He was 5 foot tall" or whatever estimations you weird people have) my mind goes into sleeping mode. I really DON'T want to know what color her socks are, for crying out loud! I really, really don't. And why should I? Unless the socks are a major point, screw it!

Screw mentioning the entire outfit. Take one piece of it! The thing that stands out! Leopard g-string outside her pants for example (or shorts. Its getting warm outside after all!).

And I don't need to know every inch of your main character's (or even worse: side characters'!) appearance in one paragraph! Not at all! Spare me, please!

This is actually one of the things that can make me hit the back-button faster than you can blink

---

For credibility: Yes, I HAVE seen socks listed D:

labels. I hate when they say: wearing a gucci dress blah blah

designer works fine...what are you trying to prove by naming the house that made it?

and how would you know if it was gucci if you were just meeting them? Sure, if it was a bag, different designers have different styles which are easy to spot...but a dress?? A PLAIN BLACK DRESS???

Gay Characters

First off: I like the whole BL scene. I can be considered a fangirl in some aspects (I'll go "Aww" at fluffy shounen-ai fanfiction for example).

This does not mean I think all gay characters are just swell! In fact, I am annoyed by how much I see the SAME gay character in A LOT of these FP stories. Effing damn it! And who is this gay character that stars in the majority of the BL stories I have read on FP?

He is:

- in high school

- thus a teenager!

- meek

- shy

- doesn't talk back to people, but come up with witty things in his head

- loner

- sort of into the emo/rocker scene

- ALWAYS has ONE friend that is either A) A girl (she will later be matchmaker because the characters are just unable to hook up themselves) or B) A boy (we skip the girl because here's one he can hook up with all by himself. Look at that!)

Aaah! *rips hair* There are more variations of male homosexuals in their adolescence, dammit!

oh and when authors feel the need to encorporate their character's stats/traits before the story starts...surely you can find a way to work it in?

you forgot the gay man-slutt, Frac

(which I'm guilty of, but he was a bi man slutt at least)

I agree with you, there, TT. Stats are for the AUTHOR not your readers! (unless they specifically ask?) I mean, it takes the fun out of it.

Too Obtuse

I wanna make it clear: I adore a good mystery. Especially if original. Doesn't everyone?

But I DON'T like when the biggest mystery of them all is what the writer is actually writing! Too flowery language, too uncertain metaphores, etc, and I am left thinking: Okay... What the HELL did you just say?

You want the MYSTERY to stand for the mystery. Don't make your writing into a walking question mark too! That is a big downfall. I have made this mistake myself (all the more reason to hate it, ahha)

oh the flowery writing...and everyone assumes it's good just because they don't understand what the hell it means

you forgot the gay man-slutt, Frac

I haven't seen him around as much, though.

Why are gays always extremes, dammit? THEY'RE EFFING NORMAL PEOPLE! They don't need to be the incarnation of Silence, or of Sluttiness. Sheeesh...

I'd love a gay guy who was really butch, not out of insecurities or trying to hide his gay side, but just because he was!

and everyone assumes it's good just because they don't understand what the hell it means

I totally hate that too, but complaining about the reviewers seems a bit out of context. But I will do it anyway! :p

*complains*

I really dislike when people mention bands or songs or whatever that are not world-wide known (like Elvis. Everyone knows that dude. Panic at the Disco? No. And I don't want to know!). It's just like... Oh, so you just mentioned this band here, just to mention it? Since it's your favorite? Ah, I see.

But no more! No, they never expand. They just briefly mention and people like me are left in wonder: what is this band? What genre? Does this enforce the scenario of the main character being a cheerleader or an emo?

What's going on?!

Yeah... So keep away from just mentioing bands, just because you can. There are RARE exceptions, and I trust you all know the meaning of "rare"

Stating the same thing twice.

"Alex was shocked at the scene and had to ask his friend, Ryan, what was going on.

'Ryan! I'm shocked! What's going on?!' said Alex, with shock, to his friend Ryan, wondering what was going on"

So that's not a real quote but it might as well be. Usually though, people only repeat the two first sentences I have here; internal thing and then the dialog.

What is the POINT? Why are you stating the same thing twice? I understood the first time, thank you very much!

Holy shizzle, I like to complain.

I might as well rant about my rants at this point ^^;

YES! THE FLOWERY WRITING!!

gosh, you don't know HOW much flowery writing just for the heck of it TICKS (aaargh, FP censors. XD) me off. i don't want to see a 10 line paragraph about how blue the sky was. i don't want to see chunks of paragraph just dedicated to the swirling of the girl's hair. yes, imagery is GOOD. but... PLEASE DON'T OVERDO IT! T_T i've seriously read stories where a whole chapter was dedicated to writing about the scenery. there was little to no plot at all.

and when the flowery writing isn't really saying anything at all... but just going around in circles... that's even worse. and when it's a SPEECH and there isn't any substance... that's the worst. T_T (there was a guy in my school who did that... endless speeches that were completely meaningless.)

flowery writing does not mean good writing. IT DOESN'T!!!! but obviously, many people like the flowery writing.

-Lefty

whoa... i was censored. T_T

FINE! i'll put "ticks" then. XD

-Lefty

Yay, rants! You all are wonderfully helpful, thanks! I'm so excited for my "endeavor," now-- you all have thought of all kinds of excitingly annoying things that I haven't. *rubs hands together gleefully*

Lefty, your description of flowery writing sounds EXACTLY like you're describing Victor Hugo's books. It's rather scary, but completely true. XD

Anywho, I just wanted to say that maybe I'm a freak, but I don't see the gay guy stereotypes much. I guess it might have to do with my shunning of fp stories that take place solely within high schools, but it seems to me that gay characters are less stereotypical than, say, the ever so annoying goth girl (named Raven or *gasp* Raven BLACK who takes pride in her choice of fishnets and really isn't so different from the rest of us, except that she's ten times cooler and really doesn't fit in-- naturally).

Anyone else get immensely annoyed whenever a character "states" something? It's like, the embodiment of boringness-- the writer has just sucked all emotion out of the character's speech. Or is that just me?

But again, yay, thanks, and carry on with ranting...or ignore me and go about discussing other elements of writing, of course.

Stuttering characters. Not ALL the time, but generally speaking, they are greatly annoying to come across and read. Because it just HAVE to go on for FOREVER.

L-l-l-l-l-lik-k-k-k-ke t-t-t-t-t-t-t-h-h--h-i-i-i-i-s-s-s-sssss.

Ugh!

You should rename this the rant thread - or make a new one for everyone to rant on

I'm guilty of the flowery writing, but what really annoys me is when Authors don't describe important things. I read this story and the main character was being attacked by a monster. The entire story went through without one description of what the monster looked like other than it was really big.

Another thing is when a story that is only a thousand words or so spans months or years. Its nothing but a history.

And another thing that really annoys me is when you review a story that has 100s of reviews, then you come back some time later to review a later chapter and you see other people who have reviewed it recently complaining of the same mistakes you noted in your review. Even just simple stuff like "tierd - should be tired" in there. What is the point of reviews if you do nothing with them??

Well theres my rant done.

And another thing that really annoys me is when you review a story that has 100s of reviews, then you come back some time later to review a later chapter and you see other people who have reviewed it recently complaining of the same mistakes you noted in your review. Even just simple stuff like "tierd - should be tired" in there. What is the point of reviews if you do nothing with them??

I have totally had that problem too with those annoying fangirl/boys -.-''

Fortunately for me, I then consider myself higher up the food chain than them :p Oh, sweet ego, what am I without you?

A personal pet peeve of mine is random abbreviations in the middle of an otherwise decent piece of writing, especially when there are a lot of them.

For example, I once came across this "It was the middle of the sem and..." WTF is a sem? With my mad skills of deciphering context clues, I was able to deduce that "sem" was, in fact, "semester", but did they bother to write it out? No. Did they properly abbreviate it? No. Did I want to gnaw my computer screen in frustration? Yes.

What's even worse is *shudders* chatspeak. You're reading a story which, so far, has been written with proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation when, BAM! Chatspeak. You are left wondering where the hell it came from and just what the hell it's doing in the middle of an otherwise properly-written sentence.

But worst of all are the stories written entirely in chatspeak. And not as parodies. I'll say no more on the subject.

About the only abbreviations I don't mind in writing are character initials (if that is how they are referred to in the story by other characters) and acronyms, so long as the name/title behind the acronym is clearly stated someplace in the story. No one wants to write out Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender/Transsexual and Allies ever time they refer to the organization (first thing I grabbed off the top of my head...).

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