so then what is the point of a review anyways? i used to think we could get constructive feedback but now (cynically) i'm realising especially with poetry, people review you a few words then expect something glowing back. which isn't helping anyone be a better writer, more making it a popularity contest.

anyone else?

Oh, the popularity contest thing is SOO true! I notice (more on ff than on fp) that the more reviews and praise you get, the more popular you are! But what about the talented authors who DON'T get reviews!? Hmmm? They need some love too! LOL. So, yeah... BTW, thanks for starting this topic! :)

Now about this site being a popularity contest, I agree. I know for sure that it is, because I've treated as one since I first came here. I would say that's a bad thing, but life (and the book industry) is often times the same way, so its a good experience if you take the time to learn from it. Some pretty average novels have sold quite a lot over the years because of strong marketing, while better books have sometimes been ignored. If that doesn't scream popularity contest, I don't know what does.

I've used this site to hone my advertising skills as much as writing skills, since I want to self-publish at least one novel in my life time (a personal goal). Not that getting reviews is the same as selling a novel, but I think similar tactics can be used to draw readers to your work, regardless. One thing I know, is that it sometimes takes more than a strong product to sell your work.

So instead of complaining about what's wrong with this site and the writers here, try turning those negatives into positives. If getting good reviews seems nearly impossible to you, try getting a writing partner to critique your work. I have something of an advisor here, so I don't have to worry so much about what type of reviews I recieve from everyone else.

And about giving constructive criticism, I used to do that quite a bit. Rarely does anyone ever appreciate the time I spent doing it, though, so I've pretty much quit doing it for anyone other than writers I know want my honest opinion.

However I still dole out as much concrit as I can because I like knowing that I helped someone and I realise they won't do the same back because most of the time I don't have that much up that's recent and what I do have is apparently confusing.

Sometimes I give hard critique, but it takes time to write those long reviews and go back and look over the parts of a story that were troubling. Unless a reviewer is just spitting out everything in their head, it will probably take them time, too. Not everyone has that kind of time to devote to every story/chapter they read--I can write fan letters to every awesome novelist I read. Most readers would rather be writing their own stuff and devoting their minds to their own works anyhow.

Personally, I think you should give back what you get--and if you happen to have a little extra, give that away too.

I don't give out "hard critique" I just point out what they could improve on and that doesn't take that much longer.

If you read something where you spot a little mistake or a little thing they could improve on why just say "Great work, keep writing I really enjoyed it" when you could take thirty more seconds to point out that mistake. Make sense?

i think giving CC might get you some, though it is true that the best way to get reviews is to advertise. (giving reviews gets you reviews... though you may have to give 100 to get 10...)

...i'm reading this post over and it's barely making sense, but i'm too lazy to fix it. sorry guys. ^_^;;

-Lefty

Perhaps for every hundred reviews I give out I get three.

Whenever I'm on I review a lot of the "just in" page and the specific poetry categories.

There's no tried and true method to getting reviews here on FP, it's just luck of the draw sometimes.

i think a hooking summary might help (though not as much as advertising.). I know when i'm sifting through the stories on the site, a hooking summary will get me into the story... and if you get me to click on the link, i'll review.

also, keeping the first chapter of your story relatively short (maybe 2 - 4 pages at most) helps in reader's interest. people don't usually have time to sit read a lengthy first chapter to see if they'll enjoy the piece. at least... that's me personally and a few others from experience.

-Lefty

I actually disagree. I was going to write another long post about how to get reviews, but I decided to just make it an essay. I posted it, hoping to leave a little information behind for everyone when I leave this site. There is a bit of swearing, and a lot of sarcasm, but I think it can help you all.

I think I've done it once in the past six months because it was pretty much faultless.

However, although I would love to recieve it, I very rarely give out strong CC. It is simply because I don't have the confidence in my writing skills. If there is an obvious typing mistake I will point it out; otherwise, I tend to focus purely on the good points.

On the receiving end, I don't mind the cookie-cutter 'I loved it!' reviews too much. I get a lot of my nitpicky critiquing done on another site, and I can't deny that I like the ego boost. I -prefer- helpful reviews, but I'm not going to say I dislike someone telling me I'm doing a good job. :P

Those people are just annoying.

Those people will never ever improve and personally I normally just give up on them right then and there. They're stubborn idiots who will never hone any sort of craft and are just here for attention.

To be honest, it's those (poet) kiddies with the "emotion over all" attitude that just irritate the hell out of me. Their emotion is nothing new, their work on the other hand could be.

But she doesn't have a crapometer right now, and when she does, she only takes a percentage of the entries at random. When there isn't a crapometer going on her blog is mostly to answer questions about agents and publishing (very good resource for that).

However, the archives are the crapometer are definitely worth reading.

-Lefty

Oh doesn't want great constructive reviews, but like I said, a review is a review, and someone took the heart to write it to you, even if it was the mere 10 seconds.

Not necessarily. They might just say "Hey that was great, check out my story?" and not have read it.

I mean if you have a lot of reviews on you then sure you can say that, but not if you don't.

I have a number of reviews because I rarely update and I give out a lot of concrit.

someone took the heart to write it to you, even if it was the mere 10 seconds.

Or like I said, they just wanted to publicise their own profile.

Why am I bleeding out the ears now?

Does anyone find the "that was great. i loved it." reviews to be completely lacking? i try to give as much concrit in my reviews as possible and more often than not get responses declaring how wrong i was about the piece. um okay, i was just trying to tell you how to use punctuation. if i give a "wow fantastic!" review, i get one back (pretty much worded the same too).

At least you get that; I strive to leave in depth critiques, often ranging to a size of 10-15 kbs. And in return? Nothing, usually. Sometimes, I'll get that defensive review reply that tries to put the mistakes I pointed out into context; usually, I'm ignored. Someday I'll learn...

Another thing, it annoys me when people leave a review at the end of a story or at the latest chapter instead of leaving one for each and pointing what could have improved in that induvidual chappie! Of course, some just don't wanna take the time to do so; but I like leaving tons of reviews! ;)

That's actually a habit of mine, and I've good reasons for it; I simply don't have the time or internet access to critique a 20plus chapter story one installment at a time, unless I got in at the ground floor when it was first posted. I'm forced to consolidate my thoughts into what I call the Meta-review, pointing out patterns in the overall story and characters instead of mistakes in individual chapters. Can't be helped; better than nothing, right?

I feed on flattery, so short reviews are good for me. If it's positive, at least I know I did 'something' right--however, short negative ones (example: 'this sux'; 'will you die already'--I've seen these on other people's reviews pages) are completely useless unless you're a writer who's fueled by anger. I tend to do what William suggested, but in poetry I usually just express my first outburst of emotion unless I see something wrong.

A bit of a double standard, no? Two line reviews are ok as long as it's sycophantic praise, but if it doesn't buttress your ego, it's your pet peeve? Interesting indeed...

And on a final note, let me state this for the record: I hate, loathe, hate, despise, and feel a new emotion I've since dubbed "ultra hate" for the "review reply" option. Never has there been an easier way for an aspiring hack to rationalize how their guitar playing, katana wielding, half-angel half-vampire high school girl character who just *happens* to share the first name as the author isn't a Mary Sue. I hate that option so much...

Especially the deep, understanding ones that really show an interest in what I put my hard time and effort into reading.

Another thing, it annoys me when people leave a review at the end of a story or at the latest chapter instead of leaving one for each and pointing what could have improved in that induvidual chappie! Of course, some just don't wanna take the time to do so; but I like leaving tons of reviews! ;)

I never do that, mostly because if I try to, I'll end up forgetting why I said something, and If I'm called on it, I won't be able to get a proper rebuttal.

I don't really mind review replies, either. They give me an option to meet new people, as well as comment to show that the criticism I get is much appreciated.

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