And where are you getting this information? Why would a med school failure with a coat hanger be the same as a certified OB/GYN with a federal inspected clinic? That makes no sense whatsoever.

But remember, if they had to go to the back alleys, it would test just how serious about gettin an abortion they really are. Some girls are forced to get it by their boyfriends/fathers because they are expected to get one with them so easy to get. If the legal option isnt there, it will test just how much these women really want the abortion.

Plus, if it's such a safe procedure, why are so many doctors opting to not do them anymore?(Especially in Euorope) What are we going to do, force them to do it? I'm sure that'll ensure the quality.

And again, the argument "They will do it anyway" is weak. Using it in other situations, it is downright laughable.

And at the end of the day, every reason why abortion should be legal is a selfish reason.

Oh and to the "ignorant" person, everything you said is so ignorant and again proves my argument that all abortion is for selfish reasons. It's not ignorant what I said, it's true. Reasoning that they are not human, that almost sounds like Nazism to me. As for not wanting rape victims to get an abortion, whats so bad about that? Do rape victims have the right to kill people? Should they be able to kill any family of the rapist if it makes them feel better? So no, I'M NOT the one being ignorant here. I'm the one looking out for the best interests of ALL parties involved.

OH Btw, I just don't like these long drawn out multi quote posts so I tend to ignore most of them as most of them tend to be rude and obnoxious(true in your case) anyway.

What gets me is how people rant about choice for abortion but seem to not care about it in any other instance.

Or perhaps because it's bull? I've had friends get abortions and their personal testimony has always led me to believe that it was a good option for them. They had wonderful medical care and counselling. For them, it was the right solution.

Again, how do you know there is no safe way to do it? Do you believe that there is no difference between a legal abortion and a coathanger one?

But remember, if they had to go to the back alleys, it would test just how serious about gettin an abortion they really are. Some girls are forced to get it by their boyfriends/fathers because they are expected to get one with them so easy to get. If the legal option isnt there, it will test just how much these women really want the abortion.

Or some women really want the abortions, there are a multitude of reasons and situations that makes this a grey subject, not a black and white one. BEFORE there were legal many women did have back alley abortions and there currently are a number of them occuring in areas like south east Asia and Africa. Women are self-aborting in horrific situations because legal abortions are not available.

Plus, if it's such a safe procedure, why are so many doctors opting to not do them anymore?(Especially in Euorope) What are we going to do, force them to do it? I'm sure that'll ensure the quality.

Again, source. Perhaps it's a moral standpoint, perhaps it's a personal thing but again, I'm calling bull unless you provide a link to actual statistics or articles about this.

And again, the argument "They will do it anyway" is weak. Using it in other situations, it is downright laughable.

Considering that it's currently happening - again, Africa and south east Asia are rife with illegal abortions - your argument is the laughable one.

And at the end of the day, every reason why abortion should be legal is a selfish reason.

So what? It's a woman's body. She has every right to do with it what she wants. Also, a fetus is not considered viable until 24 weeks which is the cut off for most legal abortions in the Western world. Until then, like I said, it is a growth on the woman, not an actual baby.

See? The woman's body. Selfish. I don't care if it's her body. They perform abortions at all times. I consider the baby a human from conception and all scientific definition supports my claim. It is not a growth, it's a baby.(Fetus even means baby, or little one) People just dont consider it a human to make themselves seem less barbaric. You cant say a baby doesn't feel an abortion unless you have been through one. Seeing as you're here, I don't think you have. But the woman doesn't have the right to kill. She can do whatever she wants with her body. But in this case, there is another body involved. So unless the baby makes the chocie to die, why should we kill it?

Well, thats all the time I have. I've found it useless to continue longterm with these discussions as convincing somebody wishing to keep murder legal, that it's wrong to murder, has proven well, pointless. So that's all for me. I'll leave the final word with you.(Which I'm confident you shall take great enjoyment in) I got writing to do, so later.

(BTW, Ignorant absolutist? Wow, no tolerance for difference of opinion. Heaven's I don't support butchering kids. That makes me an ignorant absolutist? Wow, maybe we should rethink who the ignorant absolutist is)

Anyway, I'll leave you to your ranting. Goodnight.

You help a man in the street who has fallen over and take him to hospital. It turns out that he has a deadly disease and needs nine months of constant blood transfusions to survive. He has an extremely rare blood type which you share. You could save his life if you lay in a hospital bed next to him for nine months but there is a chance that you yourself might die or get sick.

Considering that most people are inherently selfish - human nature and all - it's unlikely many would do that. It's actually a generous analogy considering that a fetus isn't a person.

I consider the baby a human from conception and all scientific definition supports my claim.

That's actually not true. It can't live by itself without the mother until 24 weeks. Which, medically speaking, makes it a parasite. Also, if you think it is, link me to a scientific article supporting that statement.

I'll leave the final word with you.(Which I'm confident you shall take great enjoyment in) I got writing to do, so later.

I don't know... I seem to be baiting you into more comments. Mostly because you're wrong.

Her . . . a woman's . . . perhaps I missed something. This may seem biased and all, but in the spirit of scientific inquiry, would you be male or female? It doesn't really have much to do with your opinion, and it would be shallow to think it did, but I was debating it in my head.

A ridiculous claim. In fact, in Australia, the number of people requiring emergency procedures due to intended miscarriage fell by more than half after abortion was made accessible (it's still on the crimes act in this state to intentionally try an illegal abortion, though there are legal avenues). The dangers of abortion techniques employed by most legal abortion practitioners are smaller than the risks associated with carrying a full-term pregnancy. Besides, it's not only the techniques that are used, but the cleanliness of facilities: many women died from septicemia and gangrene. Other girls drank bleach or other poisons, and you can probably guess what the results were of that.

You also say that girls are forced into abortions- sad and in some cases true, but likewise there are cases where a girl will be forced to HAVE a child by their partner, who in the first place would not have allowed them access to contraception. It swings both ways.

Many women having abortions in Australia are under 18 and receive no income other than what the government gives them- Centrelink payments. There is a baby bonus of $3000 granted for children, but for these women childcare is too expensive, if they chose to keep the baby, and in any case, there's little chance Centrelink payments would keep them and the child in any decent condition. A baby would prevent the woman getting a job. Unless you've tried being an unemployed single mother and put your unexpected child through decent schooling, it's difficult to see how you could claim selfishness on their part. If they honestly can't look after the child, there is little other recourse.

Adoption is an option, but as I've said, there are obviously many women for whom this is not an option- hence backyard abortions in the first place.

As for your pedophilia argument, there is no likening the two. Abortion is now, for a majority of people, considered morally acceptable; except amongst a minority who might have legitimate mental illness, paedophila is not.

I am not sure where I stand with abortion. I don’t think its right. My parents taught me that children are God’s most precious gift on earth. However, I don’t think that the government has the right to say what women can or cannot do to her body. I will never out right support abortion because if one is pregnant, they can always give the child up for adoption or find a good family for the infant. I think the only time it is appropriate for a woman to abort a pregnancy is if the women’s life is in jeopardy because of the child or if she was raped. What I do not support is people using abortion as a form of birth control because they are too lazy to use other contraceptives such as condoms, birth control pills, and any other means that will stop conception. I consider abortion under these circumstances as murder. I understand that protection does not always work, but when one decides to become sexually active, then both parties (female/male) must accept the consequences and risks that come with that behavior. For me this is personal because I might never be able to have children and to see people abuse the gift of reproduction is wrong because some would give anything to be able to have children of their own.

There is a really cynical part of me that says 'ban abortions, let the dumbf*cks do backyard abortions because their ** gene needs to stop with them and stop polluting the gene pool'.

Then there is a humane part of me which, strangely enough, still has no sympathy for the mother. Think of it this way. YOU HAVE TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS. If you have sex, and get pregnant, then, well, TOO F*CKING BAD. I have no sympathy for those who ** and moan about their lives since they had their child.

Or that could be the Cynicism that has been turned on in my brain just now and refuses to be shut off.

If the woman is unable to access contraception because she is being abused, or pressured not to use it, or because she has been raped, then in what way is having unprotected sex her action?

Well, put the child up for adoption. This corresponds with my theory on how homosexual 'marriages' ought to work. (if I have yet to explain it, then ask me and I will tell)

And people for whom adoption is obviously not an option, due to said abusive relationship or even misguided ideas about parental reaction to a pregnancy out of wedlock?

I have to agree with ONETRACKMlND!

Every ACTION has it's CONSEQUENCES! You have to suck it UP and DEAL with whatever life has to throw at you. If that means raising a child then SO BE IT! There's a girl at my high school who's in the 10th grade who is pregnant and married and she acts more like an adult then most would if they were in her place. And guess what, she plans to finish high school and get her diploma. Now how many of you can say that if you were in her place? And the girl is ONLY 15 years OLD!

Grow the hell up and grow some f*cking balls, my God.

Deal with it cause THAT'S LIFE! So if your pregnant and don't know what the hell you should do, remember that there's a 15 year old at my high school!

Not all children are innocent. Not all children learn to laugh before they cry. Not all children know trust. Not all children can forgive. Not all children can forget… …and sometimes those children do more than remember.

Remember those words if you go back to a abusive relationship. Especially if you have kids!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTFe7HR2S90

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TFwvxSnBkt8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=biYm_pLUn5o&feature=related

Abortion videos.

I have to agree there HR, there are so many places a woman can go for help besides the baby slaughter house.

Do you know what legalizing abortion would do?

It would make MORE back alley abortions take place. If abortion is legalized, the price of abortion would shoot up and it would be a market quite like plastic surgery(just not cosmetic.) Then, those women who want to have an abortion because they don't have the money to support a child no longer can afford abortion either. Since abortion is legal, they will beleive it's perfectly legitamate to kill a baby with a coathanger and have a higher chance of death. The source for that is actual deep insite and common sense.

And even if you're one of those people who for some strange reason don't beleive that a fetus(which is a BABY human being that happens to depend on it's mother like every other young organism) abortion is too dangerous to the mother's health. More women die each year from abortion compared to giving birth.(Women have been giving birth for thousands of years, and look we SURVIVED!! We don't need abortion...) whether it be from accidents during the abortion, breast cancer(your risk of getting it is increased after an abortion.), drugs(women get depressed after an abortion.), or suicide(women get VERY depressed after having an abortion.)

And if you fail to care about the women's health? then you're a socio path and there's nothing I can do to help you.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE FOR ABORTION LOOK AT THIS WEB SITE. AFTER WARDS THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST SAW. I SAW THIS I STRATED TO CRY! THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR INNOCENT BABY. HOW THE HELL CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF?!?! IT MAKES ME SICK, MAYBE AFTER THIS YOU'LL CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT ABORTION!!!

http://bibleprobe.com/abortion.htm

Why don't you get off your high horse and realise that life isn't black and white? Because that's what you're doing.

Why do you keep asking for sources when you don't give any for YOUR opinions. Why are your opinions any more correct than anyone else's?

"Rape victims are so emotionally delicate - they often suffer from PTSD - that small triggers can set them off into a downward spiral. Nine months of staring down at a constant reminder is not something that will help them overcome their ordeal."

Do you have a source for that? According to Dr. Francis J. Beckwith, an Associate Professor of Philosophy at Trinity International University, Rape does not justify abortion on demand, at best it justifies a limited exception to a general prohibition; AND exempting even cases of rape from abortion laws is violent and compounds the stress of the rape.

Your case is not revelant to the case of abortion.To argue for abortion from hard cases of rpe and incest is like trying to argue for the elimination of traffic laws from the fact that one might have to violate some of them in rare circumstances, such as when one's spouse or child needs to be rushed to the hospital. Proving an exception does not establish a general rule.

Second, since conception does not occur immediately after intercourse, pregnancy can be eliminated in all rape cases if the victim recieves immediate medical treatment by having all the male semen removed from her uterus.

Third, the unborn entity is not an aggressor when it's presence does not endanger the mother's life. The unborn entity is just as much innocent as it's mother.

Fourth, this argument begs the question by assuming that the unborn is not fully human. If the unborn is fully human, then we must weigh the releiving of the woman's mental sufferingagainst the right- to- life an innocent human being. And homocide of another is never justified to releive one of emotional distress. According to Doris Gordon, president of Libertarians for Life, a zygote is an organism which possesses the fundamental characteristic of a human being - an intrinsically rational nature; the only difference is that it is at an earlier stage in development. To deny the fetus personhood justifies infanticide or the slaughter of the mentally handicapped.

Candace Crandall, the associate producer for New River Media and the Adjacent Fellow with National Center for Public Policy Research in Washington D.C, said that Back alley abortions are a myth because 1)Their statistics are literally fabricated 2) Anti -biotics caused dramatic decline in health risks of illegal abortions, and 3) Legalization increases physical health risks because of unqualified doctors and poorly tested drugs.

Since I have sources and you dont, Midnight In Eden, I now pronounce you: PWNED

Why don't you get off your high horse and realise that life isn't black and white? Because that's what you're doing.

Why do you keep asking for sources when you don't give any for YOUR opinions. Why are your opinions any more correct than anyone else's?

"Rape victims are so emotionally delicate - they often suffer from PTSD - that small triggers can set them off into a downward spiral. Nine months of staring down at a constant reminder is not something that will help them overcome their ordeal."

Do you have a source for that? According to Dr. Francis J. Beckwith, an Associate Professor of Philosophy at Trinity International University, Rape does not justify abortion on demand, at best it justifies a limited exception to a general prohibition; AND exempting even cases of rape from abortion laws is violent and compounds the stress of the rape.

Your case is not revelant to the case of abortion.To argue for abortion from hard cases of rpe and incest is like trying to argue for the elimination of traffic laws from the fact that one might have to violate some of them in rare circumstances, such as when one's spouse or child needs to be rushed to the hospital. Proving an exception does not establish a general rule.

Second, since conception does not occur immediately after intercourse, pregnancy can be eliminated in all rape cases if the victim recieves immediate medical treatment by having all the male semen removed from her uterus.

Third, the unborn entity is not an aggressor when it's presence does not endanger the mother's life. The unborn entity is just as much innocent as it's mother.

Fourth, this argument begs the question by assuming that the unborn is not fully human. If the unborn is fully human, then we must weigh the releiving of the woman's mental sufferingagainst the right- to- life an innocent human being. And homocide of another is never justified to releive one of emotional distress. According to Doris Gordon, president of Libertarians for Life, a zygote is an organism which possesses the fundamental characteristic of a human being - an intrinsically rational nature; the only difference is that it is at an earlier stage in development. To deny the fetus personhood justifies infanticide or the slaughter of the mentally handicapped.

Candace Crandall, the associate producer for New River Media and the Adjacent Fellow with National Center for Public Policy Research in Washington D.C, said that Back alley abortions are a myth because 1)Their statistics are literally fabricated 2) Anti -biotics caused dramatic decline in health risks of illegal abortions, and 3) Legalization increases physical health risks because of unqualified doctors and poorly tested drugs.

Since I have sources and you dont, Midnight In Eden, I now pronounce you: PWNED

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