My options, as I see them, and if I miss something, I'm open to suggestions --

1) Quit writing OAS/Magebound and start something more publishable: ie, cater to the masses

2) Keep writing and forget trying to earn a living, just enjoy the pleasure it brings me: ie, happy in poverty

3) Publish it myself through Lulu.com, in which case I would be responsible for all the editing, layout, cover design, marketing, publicity ect.: ie, look, Mom, I made a book!

Personally, I don't want to stop writing it. I love this story and these characters, but I'm tired of freeloading off my parents while I try to make it big as a writer. (That's an exaggeration; I DO have a day job.) It would be nice, however, if I could make a little money off of my work.

There are some problems with self-publishing, though, namely, if my book is good enough to be published, why have I been rejected six times? If they don't want it, it must not be good enough, right? I realize, though, that publishers are only able to select a vrey few books to put out each year, especially the small presses I've been submitting to, and I'm more likely to be hit by lightning than to have my book selected out of the slush pile. So it may not be a matter of quality. I'll say, without feeling like I'm bragging, that my writing is as good or better than at least 40% of the published books out there.

The next issue is producing the book itself. Lulu.com is the best place that I've found because I can sell my book through them with no money out-of-pocket from me. They take a cut if/when the book actually sells. The bad news is the cost of creating the book. I formatted a copy of the edited Magebound and at 6"x9", or trade paperback size, it's 281 pages and costs 10.15 to produce. If I mark that up to $10.99, I get about $.68 in royaties, after Lulu takes their cut, and at $11.99, I get $1.47 for each book sold. The thing is, I don't know if anyone would be willing to pay 12 bucks for one of my books.

And if someone does fork over the cash for it, I don't want it to riddled with typos and grammatical and punctuation errors. I'm pretty good at the writing thing, and I have gotten a lot of help from people, so I know it isn't bad, and I noticed printing errors in the last Harry Potter book, so I know that it doesn't have to be PERFECT, but I'd like it to be close.

So, what I'm asking now is, would you buy a self-published book, and would you pay 11 or 12 bucks for mine? And if the answer is no, do tell me. I need to know if this is a waste of my time, or not. Thanks.

2) I think that's the first 'part' of most writers' life. Poor, but happy. You can still write, be happy, and poor, and make your way slowly into publishing your book(s), too.

3) Possible, but a lot of work. If you really wanna do it, I'm more than eager to buy your book(s). I would help you as much as I can, too, if you want (I know some awesome artists who could do a cover for your book). 11,99$ is the price for a regular manga, here.. You could easily go to 15$ or 20$ and I wouldn't mind at all. But that's just my opinion. ^_^

Here's a link to a publisher who's going to publish one of my top five favorite fic. soon (http://www.casperianbooks.com/catalog/1-934081-08-6.html). If they wanna publish a story like this one (http://www.mannazone.org/zone/admin/index.html) I think you can get yours published too.

I hope I have been helpful.

I've definitely spent more money on books that didn't even come close to how good your writing is, so I'd have no problem buying it...

Good luck with everything. D:

I'm not going to stop writing, but I may stick it on the back burner for a while and work on something else. Don't worry, though, it won't mess up my posting schedule. To be perfectly honest, if I stopped writing OAS/Magebound, I could keep posting a chapter a week for the next five months. I love having a cushion for this reason -- so I can take breaks if I need them.

Anyway, I'm getting a bit of feedback on the subject, both for and against, and I'll consider both sides carefully before I make a decision. Thanks for your input.

I'm glad you can keep posting though. What other stuff are working on, though?

And I'm working on a *gasp* novel series that I'll publish as Edward Sledge, but I can't figure out how to make each book self-contained, or at the very least, leave fewer loose ends dangling than I did with Magebound. Advice welcome. *begs*

And I've got half a dozen other projects in the works, including the novel about Rayne and Bel, and I've outlined a novel about Tam, now that I've figured out what's going on inside that twisted mind of hers, and I'm tossing around the inde of publishing a monthly serial in both print and e-book format, that will be a lot like Magebound, only it will rotate POV between the whole cast of characters. That's still just an idea, though.

About making it short... Develop ADD/ADHD tendencies. Ahaha... I can't sit still long enough to write a long short story... If it makes me bored WRITING it, I don't even want to think of what people will be thinking and feeling while READING it. D: That's all the advice I have. :O

Much shorter, but it still got the story to the point that the boy is now stuck with these men. You kind of have to think your way around your own plot, no matter how painful it is.

If ya want to see the story, I can send it to you.

Try not to let it get to you. D: Remember that you still have us as fans no matter what. D: (Unless you kill a character that I really like. Then I might hate you for a few days, but I'll be back...)

I'll remember that, Lain, when it comes time to kill ... somebody XD. I know y'all will hate me for one of the deaths I have planned. But it's not for a while yet, so don't worry.

With all the problems associated with self-publishing, I've decided against it for now. I may never get Magebound published, and perhaps that's as it should be. As far as web-published fiction goes, it may be some of the best, but as a published book, I think it would fall short. So--

Someone suggested I build a website and charge a monthy access fee, like some other writers have done. Buying a web domain and all the setup and maintenance sounds like too much work for me; I'd spend more time working on the site than I would writing. And, I would hate to deny my fans who couldn't afford the fee. My fans are more important than money. So--

What if I found a free website and posted my stories there, including the edited and revised version of the first two books, and then set up a Paypal account for people to send donations to. Kind of a 'If you liked this book, send me a couple of bucks, if you can' sort of thing. So--

What do you think? Could it work? I was tinkering with the first chapter of Magebound (the first book) and set up a web page at http://katicalocke.ulmb.com/mage1.html

I was going fo something easy on the eyes, simple, classic, not real image heavy. None of the links work yet, though. What do you think?

Don't give up, though. I think slash and lesbian fiction is really going to start going strong, so maybe in a couple years, the publishers will look more kindly on it.

First off (and I think you probably established this point already), don't stop writing. You clearly have a passion for writing and anybody who in my opinion can continue to weave stories like you do shouldn't give up just because some publisher who glanced at the manuscript for five minutes and deemed it unworthy.

You're going into the whole self-posting on web thing that I personally really think you shouldn't. Donations don't really work that well, in my opinion. People just don't cough up money easily. I mean, there are certain websites I've visited with probably half a million regulars and each month they just collect about 200 bucks max from donations. The reason is that online stories are so much of a commodity that its hard to charge for them (people can read thousands of stories on hundreds of sites like fictionpress.com and while it may not have Magebound, there are many other stories to read.)

In my honest opinion, although I have read many great published works that are better than the Magebound series, I have read far more published works that are far far below your story. Your work is DEFINITELY publishable (this coming from a huge nerd that has a book to movie ratio of 20 to 1). Its not perfect and there's always room for improvement, but if everything you did was perfect now, what would you do for the next 30 years in terms of growth? :P

I think maybe you need to persevere and go for a different approach. Perhaps you need to meet some more authors and more publishers, you know. The whole networking thing. If you can get a published author to put in a good work for you, or maybe get to know someone in a publishing house or something.

I was reading your post and I thought it actually sounds a lot like finding a job through the resume application and interview process. That stuff's really subjective. You know, networking REALLY makes a big difference. When your cover letter says "Blah blah blah of your company recommended me to this position... etc" that earns big points. I don't know much about getting books published, but I do know some people who have gotten their slash work published because through recommendations through people who are already "in".

Just some food for thought. My point is you shouldn't give up on publishing just yet; perhaps you should put Magebound in the back burner for a while and put more focus on building a network/connections. Maybe a networking book from a local library will give you some more ideas on how to get started?

Just, don't give up yet. I'm living now to see four of my favorite stories in print form, and Magebound's one of them.

o=(^_^)=o

I know the donations thing isn't the best option, but the way I look at it, right now I'm posting and getting nothing in the way of financial support. If I ask for donations, at least I might get something. And some day, when I've finished the series, or something, I'll figure out a way to rewrite them into a more publishable format.

I wouldn't even know where to begin with networking. I've thought about trying to make connections, but I don't travel, and I'm too shy to talk to people in person. I mean, I'm terrified that I'm going to make a fool out of myself, kind of shy. It borders on social anxeity disorder. So I can't meet people.

I'm still waiting to hear from one more publisher, so I can't really decide anything until then. Thanks for the advice, and I'll give it a lot of thought. I'm just getting so frustrated.

And I do really believe you'll get some donations. I mean, I'll donate.

And would ya private message me your email address? I wanna send you that short story i was talking about.

"First let me express my appreciation of your patience in this submissions process. I'm

sorry that it has taken so long. There was a long line ahead of your manuscript, but

your manuscript has brought up a lot of discussion as well.

I can say that every reader loved the fantasy world that you created. It was so unique

and so believable from the beginning until the very end. You have a very talented gift

to make fantasy real. Second, you have very interesting and believable characters,

especially ones that grow and learn from their faults.

Here are the two issues in discussion: 1)the ending, and 2)the effect of magic on Lark.

I'll start with #1. You've done a wonderful job with Lark learning about his freedom and

about wondering if his feelings for Naeven are real or caused by magic. This is

interesting in the way you've made Lark think that he's never been interested in sex with

men - and the sex he's been involved in has always been essentially forced because of his

slave status. But he's

attracted to Naeven - is it magic or not? So, you get to the very ending where the

reader feels that Lark knows it is NOT magic, but real feelings. Then you have Lark also

learn that Naeven would never force Lark into anything unless it's Lark's choice. Half

the readers believe that Lark has decided to go to Naeven and that they are satisfied

with the ending - knowing it'll all turn out happily ever after, so to speak. The other

half of the readers want more. Most want to see the love scene of the two characters

getting together, a small percentage actually wants to only see

Lark actually voice and decide to go to Naeven. What are your thoughts regarding our

readers' opinions?

I'll go to #2 now - this specifically refers to the salyr a'havon. The readers are split

again - some of the readers think the fact that Lark is effected by the magic salve is the

"hottest" scenes they've read in a while. Others feel that have erotica just to have

erotica ruins the believability of the world you've created. Personally, I didn't like

the fact that poor Lark had to have an erection for so long - it reminded me of the

unfortunate side-effect that some have to Viagra!! I also didn't like the fact that the

magic could only be removed via his semen. Sure, you've got Lark, from the very

beginning, being attracted to Naeven - and Lark is a wounded soul that does need to

realize that his attitude of his slave status is keeping him more of a slave than Naeven

does. Have you thought of removing this aspect of the story? What are your thoughts

regarding the readers' and my concern.

We all loved Schraff, the other creatures, and the wonderful world of people and places

within this story. I'd love to see this story become more of a romance versus a

seemingly erotica piece.

So, to make a long story short, we cannot publish your story as it presently is. There

is agreement that this fantasy is magnificent except for the few issues we can't seem to

agree upon. I'd like to hear your thoughts regarding the issues that I've brought up.

Please know that this is your story and that you don't have to change anything you're

determined to leave it as is. It could be that through a discussion, we can determine

what will bring everyone to agreement.

Thanks for sending your manuscript to us here at PD publishing!

Linda"

So it sounds like they're willing to work with me, or at are at least open to discussion.

I just don't know what to do about the issues they mentioned.

#1 is difficult, because I CAN'T have the love scene if this is going to be a series. I

didn't tell them that it was part of a series; I don't know what sort of difference it'll

make to them, if any.

And I'm not exactly sure what they're asking in #2. Get rid of the salyr a'havon

completely, or just make it seem less like erotica?

What do you think? I could really use some advice, because my head is spinning, lol. I

don't want to be stubborn and lose them, but I don't want to bend over backwards to

change it and ruin the story. I really don't think Lark is ready to be with Naeven at the

end of the book, and the salyr a'havon turns out to be pretty important, albeit not until

the next book, which, if they don't want a series, won't matter. *Sigh* What do I do?

In response to number two. I really do think that the publishing company will warm up to the erotica if they know it's going to continue in the next few books--especially the salyr'a havon. Another thing you can do, if they don't, is have the salyr'a havon not go into effect until Lark gets back to the castle with Naeven. That saves the constant erection thing--it'll just delay Naeven's explaining the salyr'a havon. Lark can still be all angsty on the way back, because Naeven said something sippy to him.

The thing is, this scene is extremely important, because it is the whole reason for the hissy fit over the next few chapters. It has to be somethign this raw and intense, becuase it has to make Lark feel significantly used and ashamed. I think that's important.

Didn't you once mention that the salyr'a havon could manifest in other emotions? One thing you could do, is have Lark start reaction with fear or something, as that is most what he's used to, but Naeven does somethign to turn it ito lust (you know he can!) and his excuse is, "Come on, Lark, do you really think you'll be able to catch this salamander while you're panicking?"

Just some thoughts.

And congrats on finding a company that is not completely on crack!

But...quoting FreezingRayne here...congrats on finding a company that's not on crack. :P (I really liked that Viagra comment from 'em, btw...)

I didn't read all of the replys, so if I repeat something, find it in your hearts to forgive me.

You could always send the book to larger publishing companies, first off. And I found this website you might want to check out, publishamerica.com. No 'www'.

^__^

But releasing the salyr a'havon from bodily fluids is so fundamental that if you change it, you kinda have to change.... the entire story....

I kinda get what they were saying about erotica for erotica sake detracting from the believability of your story.... but I can't really see a solution to that.

*Thinks*

Maybe you could simply cut a bit of the details out of that scene with the salamander.... the putting on the lotion part was kinda graphic....

And I liked a lot of FreezingRayne's ideas, I think you should consider them :D

It's funny, though, because I DID tell the other publishers that it was part of a series. This is the first one that I didn't tell.

You're right about the salyr a'havon. I hope I can convince them of how important it is.

Thanks again, everybody.

It's like in Howl's moving castle when Howl runs downstairs in a towl. You're like, "okay, this guy is human."

And, we all know how crafty Naeven is. If he saw a chance to get Lark naked and to run his hands over him, he'd take it.

You can just explain to them, and if they don't get it, throw rocks at them. And little Naeven action figures.

Why is it that every thread inevitably gets dirty...?

...ferseriously though...slash fics never have much masturbation...at least not the ones I've read...

*ponders why this is so and wanders out*

Naeven: 1

Lark: 2

(I think)

Good times... Good times...

I suddenly have the urge to write smut. Go figure.

Do it. Go write it. You know you want to... And you know you want to share it too...

Well, masturbation is no fun to write...

Smut, eh? Yummy. XD

I would, but I'm in the middle of writing something non-smutty, so it'll have to wait.

Like I said in one of my reviews. Lark doing two thing he does best, angsting and masturbating.

The title of this thread should be self-pleasuring, instead of self-publishing, lol

Well, Lark only masturbates cause Naeven rapes people al the time.

1.)Amazing

2.)that's not too bad considering the page count

I'd just have to figure out how to buy it without parents looking at me with disgust then throwing the book away not to mention right now I'm broke, but I'll figure it out. And you're not bad because you've been rejected. normal good writers get reject way more than 6?? 5??? times. I think I heard about someone getting 20 before they actually got published and then their book turns out to be this amazing bestseller so don't let the rejections get you down and PLEASE don't stop writing. This is an amazing story with a plot and characters to match. You have talent so don't let it go to waste or not do it for the pleasure of it just because publishers aren't looking for the type of story you're writing right now. Again, don't give up and you're amazing. Get that story publish one way or another!!!!! :) How's that for encouragement???

Thanks for the encouragement. Sometimes I can't help getting a little down, and it's nice to hear such great things from my fans.

We'd (or rather, *I'd*) like to be one of the first people to hear the good news. :D

Or even the not so good news, so we can get ready to torch the publishing house :P

Cheers,

Yuy

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