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Marinus
Topic: Worlds of Fantasy
Being the opinionated SOB that I am, here are some more tips to help all you wonderful people out in authorland create stories and worlds that don't make me cringe.

1) Put some THOUGHT into your worlds, for [insert God-of-your-choice here]'s sake! Don't just look at your beautiful blank canvas of a world and think, right, in the middle we'll have a capital city, and over there we'll have a huge mountain range so [insert hero/heroine name of your choice here] has to slog over it undergoing immense hardships to forge the ragtag band into a lean, mean fighting machine with plenty of male/female [delete whichever is inappropriate, if any] bonding sessions et cetera ad infinitum. Oh, and while we're at it, we'll stick in some desert over there for advancement of the romantic plotline, and let's not forget the mysteriously-unexplored ruin in the middle of it all containing this fantastic treasure to help you vanquish [insert evil villain name of your choice here] when [insert name of ruler of previously-mentioned capital city] refuses to help you or tells you a legend about it as 'help' and sends you to retrieve it without even any help from the local army. What 'help.'

Oh, and we'll scatter in some 'bleak, unforgiving strongholds' as window dressing for the northern lands, some 'prosperous market towns' as the world equivalent of hanging baskets for the central plains, as well as a scattering of 'isolated fishing villages' for the coastlines, to make them look pretty and save us from leaving lots of blank spaces on the map, which miraculously seem to have one inventor-type guy/girl who can build a ship that can sail [insert treacherous ocean name of your choice here] with impunity and reach [insert fabled land of your choice here] to gain [insert God-of-your-choice here]'s assistance/trust [delete whichever is inappropriate, if any].

Oh, and we'll throw in the dysfunctional climate, too. It is a limited-edition, primitively-psychotropic (knows what is expected of it in certain situations) model that only has two, or at most three, settings. Setting 1) Rain and dramatic thunderstorms. Most often seen in [insert name of evil warlike country of your choice here] and also lights up [insert hero/heroine name of your choice here] for dramatic reasons. Setting 2) Sunshine and perfect days/evenings/nights/mornings. For those romantic, touching scenes between [insert airhead hero/heroine name of your choice here] and [insert strong/brave/fiery hero/heroine name of your choice here.] Also used for those brave, merry set-off and come-home days. Setting 3) Fog. Used purely to conveniently hide those pesky soldiers of[insert evil villain name of your choice here]so they can attack you.

Sometimes settings may change in accordance with the emotions of the hero/heroine [delete whichever is inappropriate, if any,]and sod the laws of meteorology and physics.

2) Infrastructure. You cannot, cannot CANNOT have your huge capital city in centre of [insert name of huge, fertile plain of your choice here] without any infrastructure besides ROADS! You need farms, villagers to man the farms, tax collectors to tax the fields, noblemen to look after the lands, soldiers to patrol the lands against the perfidious invading forces of [insert evil/neutral land names of your choice here] and also bandits etc.

3) There are more than three climates in the world, unless you have the dysfunctional version advertised above. People are not the same in each climate, and nor do they conform to stereotypes. Just as not all Scotsmen have thick accents and stride around the place in kilts and claymores, not all northern land people are [insert stereotype here]. Mix and match them, experiment with different styles and cultures and remember architecture is NOT the same the world over.

4) Not all leaders are kind, not all of them are kings. If you want more information on types of government, agendas and various noble ranks, see The Politics of Fantasy.

5) Not all rivers are raging torrents or slow, wide meandering things, but they do perform a vital function; water to cities and farms, for example.

6) Evil lands are not always craggy, skies-wracked-by-lightning and ground poisonous-to-walk-on places. They might be quite attractive, really. If you must have volcanoes and other nasty things, please, please, PLEASE, unless it's a parody, NO names like Mount Doom!

7) The mystical foreign land which seems to be a staple does not have to be oriental in appearance and culture. Perhaps it's me, or Western fiction in general, but the generic 'far, far away place' tends to have strong overtures of traditional Far Eastern cultures.

8) Fantasy is not restricted to the Middle Ages, you know! Branch out; steampunk Victorian era would be a good place to explore for magic - you can have fusions of power and technology, magic and machine etc. And you can go further forward, too - think how modern times or even the future might be different if we had magic. World mana shortages, magical fallout from aether-weapons...possibililites are almost endless and I don't have that much creativity.

9) Names of places; keep them pronounceable. Or else.

Anything else, people? This is an area I need help on.

#1 Dec 05th 2006, 8:23am
GDeacur
I can only emphasize one thing you said - not everyone coming from a certain land acts in exactly the same manner. This is something that really strikes me as unrealistic and shallow. In fact, people in the same house can have entirely opposing views on basic values, not to mention other trivialities. So what about an entire country?
#2 Dec 31st 2006, 5:46pm
Marie Silver
I'm terrible at designing world maps, basically it's just a rough circle with a few dots here with crappy names. I see fantastic maps in fantasy books all the time and have no idea how to recreate one.

I love your tips Marinus and if anyone else out there has any ideas about how I could turn my mess of a world into something halfway near realistic I'd be grateful.

~Marie Silver~

#3 Jan 07th 2007, 11:02am
Katica Locke
Details. It's the little things that make a world come to life. And who says you have to create an entire world? For the most part, my story takes place in a single village - most of that is in one castle. I do, however, know everyone who lives in the village, what they do, who they're married to, which other characters they get along with, which ones they hate, ect. I've layed out the buildings; the blacksmith, the tailor, the general store, the clinic.

Research. You would not believe the things I've learned while researcing my books. A group of hummingbirds is called a charm, swallows are a flight and owls are a parliament. I've learned genetics. I've learned Wicca and witchcraft. I learned about anemia. I learned about horse pregnancy and delivery. Research lends credibility to details.

And a map doesn't have to be pretty, as long as it tells you where everything is. A good place to look if you want realism, is an atlas. Notice how mountains effect where palins and deserts are (rain shadow). Towns and settlements tend to spring up near rivers (transportation and irrigation). You don't build fortresses if there's nothing to protect. On most worlds, the equator is warm and tropical and the poles are cold and inhospitable. If you have dragons, or some other large, meat-eating creature, you also need to provide a food supply. Earth has millions of plant and animal species - not every tree in your story has to be an oak, not every animal a wolf.

That's all I can think of. World-building is fascinating to me, so if anyone has any questions, I'd love to take a crack at answering them. Can't guarantee I'll be any help, lol.

#4 Jan 30th 2007, 2:06am
Marie Silver
Wow, you must put a lot of thought into your book. What's your book about then? If you put this much thought into the world and villagers then what are the main characters like?

~Marie Silver~

#5 Jan 30th 2007, 6:18am
Katica Locke
My brother is always telling me that I stole the plot from 'Howl's Moving Castle', but I didn't. I just borrowed a little. Basically, it's about an abused young man who is bought by a powerful mage and the two of them trying to come to terms with their relationship while still running a magic shop and rescuing dragons and other stuff.

The main characters are two of the most complex, frustrating individuals I've ever written. Lark is emotionally damaged, has post traumatic stress disorder, is too kind and generous for his own good and is prone to fits of anger and violence. Naeven is emotionally closed off, is a recovering magic addict, uses lust and sex as a defense mechanism to push people away and is selfish and manipulative. I actually have the story post on here - Once A Slave - and lots of people tell me how much they love and hate my characters because of how stupid and stubborn and real they are. I can honestly say that these are the best characters I've ever written in all my 16 years of writing.

#6 Jan 30th 2007, 3:06pm
Marie Silver
They do sound good, like the 'recovering magic addict' idea. I'll definetly drop be and have a read of 'Once A Slave' later.

~Marie Silver~

#7 Jan 31st 2007, 3:41am
Marinus
I can only emphasize what Edward said; research and details. Always the details. But introduce them naturally, a few at a time, build up the picture slowly; don't bring the story to a halt while you explain that the silkworms of Shan have a distinctive three-speckled mauve patch on their underbellies which makes them distinguishable from other silkworms, for example.

Atlases are good for world-building. Think about your ecology and economy. You won't get the staple crop of a northern kingdom being pomegranates, for instance. Nor will you get them trading in thinsg that aren't found in that climate zone.

Merchants shape the world. Where they come together for protection, there will be people who set up businesses to supply these people. More people will go to those places, and the little trading depot becomes a village. More, and merchants actually move there. Services improve. Towns form. Then cities, and so on.

Merchants often have more influence over where things are built than rulers do. Think like greedy, money-grubbing capitalists who want to make as much profit as possible, and you'll be able to work out where things should go.

It really, really, really does all come down to research and logic. So, as Edward said, cities near water for irrigation and trade, or on high lands for defence, fortresses at mountain passes or river mouths, villages in logical places...the list goes on. Common sense and a good map will see you well on the way to making a nice operating world. And who says ancient monuments have to be out of the way?

#8 Feb 01st 2007, 2:08pm
Marinus
How about names? I always find those to be some of the hardest things to decide upon. Has anyone got any tips for deciding on names, and also expressions using the name of the world?
#9 Feb 02nd 2007, 12:34pm
Marie Silver
I'm terrible at names for both place and people names. What I tend to do now is choose a word for its phonological aspects or meaning and create a name from it. For example I like the word 'cerulean’ so I called a place Ceru (original I know) and I made a character name Barl from ‘bile’. Even then the names aren't that good.

~Marie Silver~

#10 Feb 02nd 2007, 12:49pm
Katica Locke
Names are not easy. Sometimes they just come to me, other times I might work at them for hours, especially if it's a major character or an important place. My MC, Lark, just came to me, I want something simple and easy to pronounce (very important for a MC), something unusual, but reminicent of familiar names, like Luke or Mark. I was almost finished writing the first book, however, before I decided upon a name for the planet they live on; Ashael. Mostly I just play with sounds until I find something I like.
#11 Feb 04th 2007, 9:27pm
almostthegoldenchild
name generators rock.

except some come up with just randomn letter to make a word. For example jkhuf

names have to be soomething the reader can say and rememeber!

#12 Mar 16th 2007, 4:54am
Narc
The thing that helps me with names, when I'm coming up with my own world, is to first think up what sort of names come from each region. Here's some of the questions I ask myself:

How many names does each person have?

Is one of the names a family name?

Is the family name the father's, the mother's, or a derivation of both?

What sounds are common?

What sounds aren't?

How many syllables do most names have?

What rules govern how people are named?

Do males and females have different names, or are all the names unisex?

Or are the endings just different based on gender?

Do different classes have different names?

I applied some of this to a world that I created for a story I never wrote:

All female names ended in a as a seperate syllable.

All male names ended in m, n, or l.

Nobles had two or less syllables in their names.

Commoner names all had three or more syllables.

Names beginning with vowels were popular.

Some female names were just male names with an 'a' added on the end.

There's also nothing wrong with using real names in a fantasy world, and you can still play with the rules governing naming if you decide to use real-world names for your characters.

My pet peeve is fantasy names that are real-world names with the spelling altered just to make it -seem- more fantasy. Changing 'i's to 'y's and 'a's to 'ae's is not being creative. It's annoying. If you want to call your fantasy character Sara, just call her Sara, not Saeyrha.

#13 Mar 16th 2007, 7:55am
Rozovian G
The problem with Sara (and many other real-world names) is their connection to real-world history. Where do names come from?

The name Cloud from FF is more reasonable in FF, or anywhere, than the name Sara in a generic fantasy world that isn't historically ours.

Name culture is a **. I've ranted about it on Shmi's forum.

Overall, I find as many underdeveloped worlds as overdeveloped ones. Sometimes, there's no story, just a point A-point B excuse to tell different things about different parts of the world. There's exposition, and then there's a friggin' history lesson in a world that has no story beyond history.

If the world is well built, you can put a whole story in jsut a single village, never say much about other places than its immidiate surroundings, and tell a long, good story there. We're all just so dang fond of the global-impact-type events that we can't resist shoving them in the path of our characters.

#14 Apr 08th 2007, 4:35pm
strykr
World Building is probabaly the hardest thing i've ever encountered so far in fantasy writing.

At the moment I'm working on a book called 'Anafiell' which basically revolves around a legendary forest called (whaddya know) Anafiell that once had the world beneath it's magical heel. So after billions of years of extinction, Anafiell has come back and is gathering an army with something along the line of revenge in mind... Its funny, modern and full of action and twists that make even me dizzy. Its better than it sounds, guys!! Don't cringe at my bad attempts at summarizing such an enormous story! Besides, its 2:00 am and I cant think straight.

Anyway, i wanted to try setting this one in the real, modern-ish world- sounds easier than making your own world, does it not?! No. It isn't. You see, i dont really understand how do go about it. Where in the world could I put an enormous forest without it looking a bit... out of place? Should I just make my own world and avoid straining myself? Any ideas anyone? Please?

~strykr

#15 Apr 13th 2007, 4:07pm
strykr
Names are pretty easy for me. I like names that I'd dont have to think about before I understand what it actually is. Books with difficult names, in my opinion, should be chucked straight down the gutter.

I guess it depends on your style. Some use your average "George and Martin" while others go for "Blue and Shade" while others go for "Gu'mxzeith" o.O

As for me, i enjoy choosing names that suit my characters. Once you've figured out your characters, the name should come easy. Search for names that have meaning for example if you heroin in going to go die in a sacrifice to the sacred moon, name her Ara which, I believe, refers to the platform where sacrifices are made (this is one of my sisters name choices). I spend a lot of times on names until i find one thats perfect. Don't stop until your pleased. Otherwise you'll be changing names throughout the whole book. Talk about confusing. There are hundreds of sites dedicated to genertaing fantasy names and plenty of odd names can be found on normal baby name sites. You just have to look hard enough. Try seventhsanctum (I think thats it... not quite sure...) My sister says its good.

Cheers. Strykr

#16 Apr 13th 2007, 4:21pm
Marie Silver
I don't use name generators because I feel like it isn't mine. I like researching or making up my own names then the characters and places have my 'stamp' on them. Sometimes names come easily to me and other times I'm searching behindthename.com for hours looking for the perfect name.

When I needed a name for an female elf, I came up with a name I love in seconds but it didn't fit the character. So then I spent ages searching the above website and eventually I found the perfect name. As soon as I saw it I knew it was right for the elf. As for the other name I'm saving it for a character who fits the name.

And I have nothing against name generators, they just aren't for me.

~Marie Silver~

#17 Apr 16th 2007, 2:43am
Marinus
It is seventhsanctum you're thinking of. And while I agree with Marie Silver about the name generators, they have lots of other ones as well that can be quite interesting if you're stuck for names of technology and so on.
#18 Apr 16th 2007, 10:58am
Arrow Windwhistler
I just rely on the names of my classmates. Especially for villains. Then you can kill your classmates and they won't care. =P
#19 Apr 17th 2007, 8:47am
Rozovian G
I advice against that. It's not far from libel. :P
#20 Apr 17th 2007, 10:53am
strykr
yes seventhsanctum. however,it's just a site i was mention. i don't particularly like using name generators either. they aren't my style, they never produce anything i would enjoy using or would suit the characters i am looking for names for. i would rather play with words and pick one out of thin air or use normal naming sites. there is also a site called 20000-names.com, i believe. it has a vast database but i have never really wanted to spend the time sitting there looking for names through all those lists. just not the way i function. ^_^
#21 Apr 17th 2007, 3:32pm
strykr
seems like i always forget to say something... okay has anyone ever 'stolen' a name from a book before? i wanted to use the name 'Caspian' in a story once and i was considering using it in the one i'm writing now but i'm not sure if i'll end up being bombarded with nasty accusations of copyright violation. i mean... the name really seemed to fit the character... :P
#22 Apr 17th 2007, 3:38pm
Marie Silver
It depend what kind of story you're writing and who the character is. If he's a prince then I'd say no. But otherwise people do it all the time. As long as you're 'stealing' the name and not the character then I can't see a problem with it. You're character might be compared with the other Caspian but I don't think you would be accused of copyright violation.

However I am not a lawyer and this is more or less speculation but I think you'd be allright.

~Marie Silver~

#23 Apr 17th 2007, 3:44pm
strykr
okay, sounds cool but i wouldn't try it if i was actually publishing it. no he is not a king. nor is he a lion for that matter. great!
#24 Apr 17th 2007, 4:00pm
Marie Silver
Well if you did try and get it published the publisher would tell you if it needed to be changed.

~Marie Silver~

#25 Apr 17th 2007, 4:03pm
Lord-of-Fools
Aye, I agree with most of your introductory post, Marinus. I'm trying (and have been for some time) to create a world with an ecology similar to Namibia (similar geographical position), with a culture sort of derived from Middle Eastern and South-East Asian traditions. As it's based in a newly independent colonial nation, in a period about the equivalent of the early 30s in terms of technological progress, there are cars and electricity and bullets. It's fascinating what can happen to the leadership of a fantasy nation if you give them access to things like guns and petrol.
#26 May 07th 2007, 3:00am
Marinus
strykr, Russia has huge forests. Also consider Great Britain - it used to be 98% forest, much like most of Europe. It depends entirely what time period you set it in. if you go back to the 'wild wood', then a lot of the temperate and not-so-temperate countries were covered in forest of some type.
#27 Aug 10th 2007, 11:56am
NotMyShoes

If I'm having trouble coming up with a name off the top of my head, and let's face it, my book needs a lot of them, I'll go to behindthename.com. There, you can browse names by meaning, to find one that would fit your character. I personally never use the names directly off the site, but once I find one that I like, I modify it a little to make sure it fits in with the general naming style as well as making it slightly more my own.

#28 Jun 26th, 12:51pm

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