1) Don't go overboard on your fantasy writing at the start; introduce concepts gradually to give the reader time to assimilate them. Being bombarded with the history of the world you set your story in in the prologue is, while useful for your own purposes, not particularly inviting to a reader.

2) Go for pronounceable names that have some relevance to the story. A name like 'Xaarok'avear of the great Empire of Drash'dok' is not pronounceable and tends to put readers off. It can help if you link the names into your story - for instance if you have a race of people who live only by day and worship the sun, try giving the characters names like Dawn, Noon and Dusk.

3) There are always limitations. If you're going to use magic in your story, develop a sort of structure for it, complete with side-effects - a spell that reduces five square miles of dark, forbidding forest before the evil lord's stronghold to ash is not going to be the same as a fireball you might use to light a campfire. Use your common sense, really.

4) Be creative! Give your characters background; where are they from? Where are they going? What do they want? Why do they behave like they do?

5) No character should be two-dimensional. All of them should be appropriately human - say you have an evil lord totally bent on world domination. Why does he want to do it? What does he actually like about the world? Maybe he savours a good brandy just as much as the next humanoid creature. Maybe he likes roses and tea. Who knows.

6) Don't be afraid to try something new. Your hero doesn't have to be 'six foot two with biceps the size of Bournemouth.' Mind you, he doesn't have to be a weakling pacifist, either. Find a balance you like. Your heroine doesn't have to be a blonde idiot or a black-haired assassin. It's all about finding a balance that suits you and your story.

7) Keep your character casts to a reasonable level - you really don't want things getting too large and out of hand as readers will get characters mixed up in their minds. Kill them off if you have to, send them away to look after some other business, just keep your cast down to about twelve recurring characters with a scattering of minors.

8) Try not to make your heroes paragons of every virtue - they could just be in the right place at the right time. They are still imperfect. Maybe he/she enjoys the company of ladies/gentlemen of the night, or a good mead or something.

9) Magical artefacts with the power to crack the world. 'And just when all seemed lost, Xaarok'avear raised the Sceptre of Eternity and yea, with its power he vanquished the evil lord who had held terrible dominion over the Empire...' Sounds a little contrived, really. If you can pull it off, it can be an excellent story, but more often than not it fails and brings a story crashing down.

10) Your fantasy world is every bit as complex as the real one. Think of infrastructure; you can't have huge armies and vast cities without some sort of network of support; farms, roads etc. If you have countries, remember each one will have its own agenda. If you use sorcery, describe how it's done. Do the mages simply focus on what they want done until it happens? Do they use incantations in an old language to perform their workings? Do they tap the natural forces of the planet?

11) People change and evolve in adversity. Characters should do the same - again, use your common sense here.

12) People have different aspects of personality. Perhaps they hide behind a mask of some sort to protect themselves; it doesn't have to be a physical one. Perhaps they are jaded and world-weary, but hide it behind courtesy and politeness.

13) What time period, relative to Earth, do you want to set your story in? A lot of fantasy works are done around medieval times, replete with taverns and horse-drawn carriages et cetera. Some delve into ancient history - Greece, Rome, others. Relatively few consider fantasy in a more modern setting. Try, for example, the Victorian era and style - magic fuelling the industries and war machines of empires, for example - there's a lot of scope for work.

14) Be happy with what you're writing. This is the most important one.

That's all I can think of for now. Anyone else got any ideas/comments?

To put it simply make your stories believable no matter how unreal, right? Don’t be afraid to let the bad guys win (at leased a little) and reluctant heros/heroines are good too.

P.S. I think if possible, you need sub topics for this forum, like "what's your favorite type of bad guy?"

Give your charries major, believable weaknesses that make them seem real. (Not being able to sing is NOT a major weakness... for example)

yeah... just to share...

lurve y'all.

Twelve characters with a scattering of minors seems a bit too much to me. I know I can't be the only reader that gets a headache trying to keep that many characters straight. Especially if an author tries to give them all overly detailed backgrounds and skips the narrative between the large cast as the story progresses. That's one of the problems I have with The Wheel Of Time series. The glossary is a requirement to keep everyone straight if you don't want to flip through thousands of pages just to keep up with who's who.

If you're going to have that many main characters, either seperate them into smaller groups early and don't introduce too many strong personalities that will latch onto the smaller groups to make them bigger, or seperate who gets precedence in the narrative by dividing the story into sections.

At least that's what floats my boat.

Let's see. What kind of tips do I have for fantasy writers?

1) If you're writing high fantasy, it does not mean you have to write stereotyped fantasy. Not every dwarf is grouchy with a soft interior, and not every elf is tall, elegant and experienced with the bow. Try to experiment with different character types and you will find your writing has a flair that it didn't have any more.

2) Try to vary your character's pasts. The villain killing their wife / husband / sister / brother / parents / great-uncle Jim thing is getting kind of old. Maybe your heroine wants to pursue this guy because she dated him in the past and he dumped 'er for a prettier girl. Who knows? The possibilities are endless. (Yes, that idea is up for grabs, though I personally wouldn't take it because several other people might read this tip and like it.)

3) Never kill off a character just to make a villain seem more evil. This kind of applies for other kinds of writing besides fantasy, too. We're not here to turn the wicked demon Meevil into the most sadistic b*stard we can. As a matter of fact, a much more interesting story comes when you can make your characters feel sorry for a villain. I'm not saying make them cheer on Meevil to the end, but at least make them see both sides of the story and feel at least a little torn.

4) Try to keep your magic inventive and unique. There are several different ways to cast a spell. Chants, hand signals, written symbols, reading an ancient text, or the sheer power within someone are all examples that can make something magical. There are plenty more ways to cast a spell and even more interesting twists you can give the simple act of lighting up a dark tunnel.

5) If your fantasy work sounds just like a story or book you just read, finish your page / chapter / whatever, then try reading a completely different story. You can pick anything from a Western to a Psychological Thriller. Then rewrite what you had written, from the perspective of someone who has just finished a wildly different tale. Afterwards, edit the two together for an interesting combination that will please both you and your readers.

Dang! Marinus took all the stuff I was gonna talk about. _ Kidding, kidding. Well, there's 5 tips for you. If you don't like 'em, don't use 'em. I don't mind.

The third tip about limitations could also include fighting and weapons. Don't have characters who have never seen a sword suddenly be able to wield it like trained warriors. And don't let characters who lack physical strength wear heavy armour and carry a lance.

Really it's common sense but I've read far too many stories about a fifteen year old girl who's handed a sword twice her height and is able to easily defeat an army of giants.

Oh, just read yours too Sakka-Fenikkusu and I particularly liked the fifth tip. Doing something like that would definitely make for an interesting read.

~Marie Silver~

Here's something that niggles at me: This is fantasy, people! Your created humans' moralities could be different from yours. Not every hero needs to have the values and virtues of a modern-day, agnostic, cynical/idealistic teenager (i.e. you). Really. And not all societies need to be repressive monarchies which have to be toppled by freedom-loving democratic heroes.

Say it with me. It's okay to create perfectly gender-equal societies. It's okay to create *Normally Functioning* and *Un-Evil* societies that practice animal sacrifice or are perfectly atheistic or are slavishly devoted to a god or are collectivistic or are run by space hamsters manipulating people through mind-control. In fact, that's sort of the point. Fantasy = unlimited possibilities. Don't trap yourself in a mindset that has "20th century" duct-taped all over it.

Also, don't be afraid of criticism. Sure, it stings, but it is better to have someone point out a flaw than to have it stay there.

And it's something that can be really easy to overlook when you're lost in the flow of your story, but modern day slang can jar you right out of a narrative when you come to read it.

Secondly, when it comes to villians, don't be afraid to keep some of their motivations secret. They don't need to explain or justify themselves to anyone; after all, they're the villians and they can be really fun to write.

thanks for all those tips. i will keep them in mind.

What would be the best way to start a story? Which is more attractive/interesting? What opening would have the reader wanting more?

Another way is by allusion. By hinting at something interesting, the reader will possibly be intrigued into reading more to find out what exactly your characters are going on about. A twist of this is to start in the present with a bad situation and go back to what got the character in the situation.

Budding tension can also help hook in a reader, or a character who is plotting something.

A more typical introduction, perhaps, is to simply use description. If the setting has interesting facets, then it will assure the readers that the rest of the story will be similar. :) There are more ways, and a good way to find them is to take a look at your favorite stories or books. How did you get hooked into them? Learning by example is one of the best ways to figure stuff out.

Good luck with your stories!

Concincing and well-defined, and unique environment/world

Concincing, well-defined, and unique characters

Writing style that is your own

Convincing and unique plot that is exciting and dynamic

Room for future development to be atiated in later books or chapters

This more like the 'backbone' of fantasy writing, while Marinus' comments are the 'flesh'

my bad

Thanks again, to all of you who've contributed so far.

Sure, since authors are usually human in this dimension and therefore all characters will be human at heart, try and make them as unhumanlike as possible. For example, Fang the vampire is not going to be a bubbling fountain of happiness. He's a bloody vampire!

1.)charries need weakness - they are not gods are they?

2.)charries need to have emotions, sure they might be an evil rabbit bent on taking over the world with his gigantic metal carrot (what the?) but still we should know what made him turn to that. Even evil villains have emotions.

3.)dont be just be all powerfull all of a sudden, well if you did why dont you make a chapter where he thinks about the times before he became powerful.. a flashback perhaps?

4.)well dont be always serious, sure u might be doing a fantasy war but still dont they have fun once in a while?

5.)enjoy what ur writing, and be urself.. just go with what u feel.. and accept crticisms if there are any most masterpieces are just cuased by accidents and they never even plaaned to do such a thing.

well that's all...

1.) I know people say read a lot so you'll become a better writer, and it's true. If you read a lot of fantasy books, you'll know how to write fantasy better. So, when reading a book (doesn't really matter what genre it is, because romance does show up in fantasy), jot down what you think is a good idea. Later, you may be able to use something SIMILAR in what you're going to write.

2.) Give them a real human weakness. Like, they happen to enjoy their brandy a little too much, and they're trying to quit or something.

3.) Not all heroes/ heriones (sp?) have to be young, tall, and replicas of Barbie. if you've ever read C.S.Lewis's books in The Cosmic Trilogy, the guy's like, 40. So, vary your age groups.

4.) Whenever you get 'flamed', don't take it as a bad thing. It can be good. It'll help your story along, and it could end up better than it was before. I'm not saying change it every time someone says something. Just think about your story, and then think about your story. Are the changes a good or bad idea? What would happen if you made those changes? Things like that.

5.) Magic needs to have boundries. How realistic is it if a person can use as much magic as possible without tiring? It would be like running for ever and not needing to stop. Not possible. Unless of course, you make a way of it happening that way. Say there's a power source they draw from or something like that. Sure, they may not get tired EASILY, but, add that in, and your wizards or whoever can have more energy.

6.) If you like something from a book you've read, don't hesitate to use it. though, make it your own. Think about it, change it's shape, use it with things from other books you love, add creations of your own. It's YOUR world, but make it realistic.

I think that that's it!

Raven over and out!:D

1. I think this applies to any story, but make sure that when writting a story that it has a good flow to it. Like you can't have constant action for a long time. Our heroes (and even villains) need a resting period after all.

2. Remember that when you have people of different ranks that their position in life gives can play a huge role in their char. Like a good example would be that in one of my stories, one of my main chars is a peasant, she she can't read.

3. Oh and if your story has twists in it, be careful to not leave any loose ends. If it gets so complicated, I would recommend starting from the end. lol.

4. Don't use words that people won't understand.

5. Oh, I also say that if you're going to use any god-like chars, I'd recomend that you make them appear as 'human' as possible. Personally, I only use chars like that in a minor role.

One last thing, I'd like to give a comment. For me, the hardest thing about a story is coming up with the names of the chars, chapters, and even the story itself. lol.

The only advice that I can think to offer at the moment is that if you are writing in third person and you are going to switch between different characters' perspectives, make sure the narrative becomes tainted with that character's biases. It adds an extra dimension to the narrative, makes it easier to see what the character is thinking without stating it word for word in italics too much, and makes it easier to mislead your readers into coming to a certain conclusion so that you can surprise them later with a little twist. For examples of what I'm talking about read Harry Potter or C.J. Cherryh's Fortress series. (Harry Potter is written almost entirely from Harry's perspective, and Cherryh switches between characters so well that the moment you start reading from the new perspective you know exactly who it is before she even says it.)

Girlbrainiac

For example, one of my chracters I'm going to right about is a banshee, named Quirty, and Quirtio is latin for -scream.

Oh, I totally agree with that perspective. Personally, I like switching perspectives, just to give readers more of an insight on the chars. And grammar wise, you need to stay in the same tense throughout the whole story. Like if you start out in past tense, you want to stay with it.

This is usually a flaw that occurs when the main character is female, usually the lord/duke/vampire/some major guy who wouldnt hesitate to kill you acts like a jerk, and what does the woman do??? She tells him off!!! HELLO you wouldnt do that in real life like if a guy had a gun to your head then made a sexist joke would you say SEXIST, no you wouldnt and you wouldnt tell off or try and show that you're better then the guy who can and most probably would kill you. The reason i say this is a problem commen with female characters is because when the male counterparts act the same way they usually get kicked out/beaten up/tortured/in some cases killed but when women do it its ok. Im not trying to say women cant do certain things im trying to say PEOPLE cant do certain things I mean why would a vampire have a problem back handing a woman i mean he kills all the time but still wouldnt hit a women, ever heard every action has an equal and opposite reaction, yeah, well use it.

Thanks for reading. Nemian

2) Don't be pressured into making a love interest for your character. Not everyone's "happily ever after" involves a signifigant other.

3) If there is a love interest- who says it has to be human, or even of the opposite gender?

As for the comment on magic, I'd like to say that I totally agree. If a character has no magic cost, what stops him from using it every ten seconds? Morality? Please. If any villain had access to that kind of power, he'd use it to kill the hero right away.

On another note, if the villain had an unstoppable superweapon, he would use it as early and often as possible.

And speaking of magic, what are some good ideas for the whole "MP" situation? Life force? Some invisible energy that can be tapped like a well, but needs time to regenerate? Maybe even... human souls!

I'm tired now so I hope this helps anyone out!

I agree 75% on the describtion thingy, it all depends on the writers style, somestimes to much infor mation actually works.

In games, magic uses up mana which is usually determined by stamina (and natural talent).

I can hear someone coming. ltt but gtg.

But yes... description is a fine balance in any fiction. Too little and your story is bland. Too much and you've slowed the pace incredibly, and shown your readers you don't think they have an imagination of their own.

I believe in throwing the readers in the middle of things and explaining what they need to know WHEN they need to know.

1) Perhaps you could make the main character or hero at some point question their actions. After all, how do they know that the epic quest they're embarking on is a totally just thing, or that it is the best course of action to take? Is there another way? Paranoia, people, paranoia. Heroes are bound to not know exactly what they're doing at every moment of the journey. Maybe if your character is a hot-headed, arrogant sod, you can skip this, but twist it a little and make them regret not realising the pitfall they've landed in.

2) Heroes are not always honest, virtuous, good, true and compassionate people. You could throw in an opinion of theirs that you might disagree with, for example, they could secretly be racist or bigoted. This way, if your main character is the 'good guy', the reader may actually find themselves disliking the character, or wanting the villain to win. But don't go overboard with it; you don't want to push it so much that the reader will hate the hero and results in the hero turning into the bad guy (but if you can write that well and it fits the story, it can be a good twist). Put a reason behind their hatred of something. A past experience? If you can make their bad points realistic enough, or occasionally divert the readers attention from their good points and find themselves despising the heroes actions despite how noble they are, the readers' own morality is brought into question, and as a result they may think twice about the hero's personality, and that even if a person is racist or whatever, they could still be good people.

3) Finally, the heroines. Most authors trip up on this one. Please don't make heroines Mary Sues. It just spoils it. And the heroine's speciality doesn't have to be confined to either screaming pathetic blonde bimbo, tough firey, bitchy tomboyish warrior-ranger, dark, mysterious, sexy assasin, hyper mage, witch or healer. There are other talents than that. Perhaps she is a great orator, despite how useless she is in battle? Or maybe she is a dab hand at a musical instrument, or reads alot? If the magic in your story is confined to men, like it is in the Earthsea series, she could be good at breaking barriers, fighting to the bitter end, and going out of her way to prove them wrong? Just because the hero is a woman doesn't mean she has to be good-natured and warm-hearted. She can be just as heartless and callous as any other human. And by Mary Sues, I mean, the heroine doesn't have to be good looking, fifteen, and has a tragic past and loads of hidden insecurities. Vary the age range of your heroines. Maybe they just genuinely like going on quests for the hell of it? A motivated ideal is not the only reason for a storyline. She could've been there at the wrong place at the wrong time, not lectured on by some king that she must 'go to the little known about far away kingdom of Zanzibab and claim the famed Tear of Farakidare'hmorf and venture back to defeat the twisted Arch-lord Jorfringr the Monstrous and his army of Kalabarks', just for the simple reason that the Tear will look good in his barthroom. Heroines are just so easy to cliche.

I hope you find this advice helpful. :)

1. Nobody has a heart of gold. It's not like some random guy would go "OMG I shall go save the world in the name of good and not get anything in return!" Sure, Link goes off and saves the world in the name of good, but Cloud (FFVII) asks for $3000 before he helps save anyone.

2. Heros are not always 'Buff, blond haired hotties who can wield a sword and do martial arts better than Bruce Lee.'

3. -shakes head- Gosh, the cliches...Mages are not always the free spirited 15-year-old girls who can destroy the world in a clap of her hands. Heroines are not silver haired sex-bombs who fall in love with every guy on her team. The non-human deserves some love too! Wa-hoo! Hail the fish people and the bear-woman! lol AND who said the magic user had to be a young girl or an old guy? Can't a 25 year old guy be one too?

4. If I see one more 'And da bad guy and da good girl fall in love and live happily EVAH AFTA!' story I am gonna FLIP.

5. Break out of the ordinary. In my story, there is only percieved magic, and the mage on my team is a charlaton magician. The '15-year old girl' is a tea shop assistant who is obsessed with tea and a cue stick. My hero is a nerdy apprentice mapmaker who's a reluctant hero. And my heroine is dragged into the story because of how she dresses. Now that's different!

HA! The magnet thing made me laugh so hard. 'Humans are not magnets!' Gosh, that's going to be going through my head all day.

And if you do decide to set a fantasy story in modern or historical times, or in an invented world more advanced than the Dark Ages, subtlety can be very effective. The more you explain something (after a certain point), the more people will start to question the item of explanation. What do you think keeps scientists going?

Please don't feel like the main character has to go on a save-the-world quest unless your story demands it. Just some thoughts.

Yeah.

But a part of writing good fantasy is knowing how to twist the clichés. There's nothing wrong with a 15-year old girl who can destroy the world if she wanted to. However, what would be the most realistic reaction, even if this girl is free spirited? I know I'd freak out completely, but for some reason these girls hardly ever freak out, and when they do, everything is all okay-dokay after half a day. Talk about a lack of realism o.O

Twisting clichés is a lot of fun when you're bored, too. teehee

Please don't make your main villian uber powerful. I really can't stand it when people do that. If your villian has amazing magical powers of fantastical doom and destruction than the world would be enslaved already. These obnoxious stories about farmers randomly picking up a sword one day and going off to join the rebel group to beat down the god-like super oppresor and somehow, in the end, beating them down, are absurd to me, no offense. I mean, if this guy is so powerful all he has to do is point and then POOF! All the rebels are little piles of dust. I love stories that have bad guys that are flawed and aren't exactly the best in the world. Novels like George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire are particularly amazing because it's often hard to tell just who the bad guy is because everyone is a mix of both good and evil...Even Harry Potter is good in the sense that Voldemort is not all powerful. It takes four books for him to finally get his powers back and even then he can't go out and destroy the world in one swipe of his wand. Add some realism by making your villians powerful, but not to the extreme. Perhaps your villian isn't powerful at all...he/she's simply extremely charismatic so people tend to gravitate to him/her and do his/her bidding. Or maybe...GASP! Your villian is actually kind to his/her minions. He rewards them for their services knowing that by making them love him they'll be more willing to fight for him when the battle gets serious. I don't know...just a thought.

Anyways! That's the biggest thing that annoys me in fantasy stories that I really don't like. Just thought I'd point it out, though I'm sure it's been stated a million times already,considering how huge this forum is.

~NeonGreenInk

I dunno if that all makes sense to you guys, but she explained it this way to me: Using omniscient words (such as good, kind, evil, tricky) is no real way to explain what your character is/how you want them to be portrayed. In other words, SHOW (don't tell) your character's personality. Otherwise, that's just forcing one viewpoint on your reader. Bad writer. As soon as I see a word phrase like 'The EVIL Overlord', I throw it immediately out the door. I know in fantasy we like to use those words to make it 'easier' for our readers, but I feel readers are smart enough to try and deduce who's what, that is if anyone is supposed to be anything. Then again, what is good and evil if nothing more than an illusion? [If anyone stated this previously, I apologise for not crediting you]

And NeonGreenInk, I agree with you highly. If a "super-powerful villain" is so "super-powerful", then why the heck should they be so easily defeated by a complete nobody that just happens to pick up magic and swordsmanship by some work of divine intervention?

....And don't get me started on prophecies....

I suppose some people might do it subconsciously, but even so it can be quite annoying to find that, yes, everyone in insert-fic-of-your-choice-here who has blonde hair is a good guy and everyone who has hair like ash, good cheekbones, red eyes and corpse-like skin (using the rather more romantic interpretation of this - white - instead of rotting, scabrous ooze hanging off the body which is probably more accurately 'corpse-like.') is evil.

And what I really, really, REALLY hate is when (extreme) Political Correctness, that little devil, creeps into a story and ruins it.

Say you need something that's evil, and not just hostile. Either create an inhuman threat or show how the "evil" humans are really just of another view. I'm not gonna make this a debate on political correctness, as the extremes will always be **, I'm just saying that the stories we write are about other worlds with other views and other ideas of political correctness - they may not even have a concept similar to it (such as correctness derived their religious or other cultural views). As we're writing about other worlds, what we write is not a political commentary, though we can make it one; it's an adventure for the enjoyment of the reader.

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