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Marinus
Topic: The Structure of Magic/Sorcery/Whatever
What structures do people use for magic, generally? Can anyone think up something original?

I really have no idea about this, so help!

#1 Apr 05th 2007, 4:30am
Arrow Windwhistler
Structures, meaning like magic-powered buildings, or general magic systems?

For the latter I'm using primary, secondary, and tertiary magic types. Similar to how you have primary, secondary, and tertiary colours, the same thing with magic.

Primary magic types are the most widely-known spells - offensive spells, defensive spells, spells that assist allies and debilitate enemies, and spells that don't really fit under any kind of real definition here.

Inside each of those are the secondaries - fire, ice, lightning, holy, dark and etc are all considered secondary offensive types. Secondary defensive types are your typical curing spells. Tertiary are spells that are so specialized they're really in a class of all their own - spells that enable long-range vision, the ability to create illusions in the air (similar to holograms in sci-fi) and...yeah.

That's my idea, I've only had it for 2 days though, so I'm still toying around with it. The general idea though is that you get more specific as you move from primary to tertiary, kinda like how a kid at first sees only red, blue, green, yellow...then as s/he gets older s/he notices there's violet and dark red, and then finally you get esteroic colours like cyan and azure.

Still needs work, though

#2 Apr 05th 2007, 4:40pm
Marinus
Interesting...Sounds rather like a university course. It's a very good idea, with lots of scope for expansion and refinement in pretty much every area. Like it!
#3 Apr 05th 2007, 11:31pm
Arrow Windwhistler
Any assistance in refining it would be greatly appreciated.
#4 Apr 06th 2007, 11:56am
Rozovian G
Magic is a tough one, but as long as it can steer clear of the usual clichés, it's good. (parodies excused)

No offense, Arrow, but aside from the levels of spells you've mentioned, yours sound pretty much a cliché, the usual element thingys. I hope you can make it innovative enough, tho.

#5 Apr 08th 2007, 4:38pm
Arrow Windwhistler
I stick with what I know. I'm open to suggestions though
#6 Apr 08th 2007, 6:51pm
Rozovian G
You might find something useful on this thread, http://www.fictionpress.com/fr/522525/201/1956/1/ , in my rhetorical rants about magic. Plus there's the internet, and you have a head of your own. What _is_ magic, in your world? That's the key question, I think.
#7 Apr 09th 2007, 8:46am
FoxyWriter
Well... I made a magic structure up that I've been using in all my writing. It's nothing special, but works for me. Well, I'll try to be more helpful hehe - as a suggestion - you can make your own categories for specific types of magic, and have some kind of ranking between the hardest learnt, most powerful, and forbidden stuff, etc. And penalties also if you violate some kind of "rule" your magic has. Magic is something that's like modelling clay - it can be molded into virtually anything you want it to be. Have fun :D
#8 Jun 29th 2007, 7:18pm
Running Sunrise
In my world, "magic" per say isn't anything special that is inherent in some people and simply not there for others. In theory anyone can use magic, but it takes a certain area of the brain that remains inactive in most humans and needs a "kick start" to get it moving or some non-human ancestry. Kick starts include becoming an immortal through science (very rare, expensive, and dangerous) or another immortal species infects you, such as with werewolves and vampires. Other kick starts include heavy meditation with the guidance of another who can control magic or having your mind tampered with by a telepath.

Laws of Magic for Humans:

Since humans take years to train their mind to "ignore" the rules that the flow of the worlds sets down and therefore are able to control it, the limits of their magic is mainly physical. Body weight and how physically fit you are dictate how much magic you can use and the power level of it, or more accurately how well you can channel this power through your body, since the flow of the worlds is an everlasting river and theoretically never depletes. My main character shares a link with an immortal, which is why though she's a girl and is far from having zero percent body fat she's able to use fairly advanced spells. Magic needs to be trained like a muscle, and the more you "lift weights" the bigger your muscle gets. If you cease using magic, it atrophies and may take a while to return to your former strength.

When using magic, at first you are able to simply channel the flow of the worlds through you to power your spells. But constant concentration is needed, and eventually most people succumb to exhaustion and begin using their own innate power, much like a battery in a lap top after you pull the plug. When you stop using your power, you rest and allow yourself to be recharged by the natural flow of the worlds that keeps life moving, but if you don't rest, you die of over exertion.

Also, since as I've stated humans have a poor grasp of the power and limits of their own mind, they generally need something to focus their spells on. This can take the form of anything your imagination can come up with, from a word like "Fireball!" or drawing symbols on paper or in the earth, or a magic wand. Most immortals see these things as crutches or tools, and don't like to use them in casse they become dependant on them and it becomes a liability.

On "magic words": simply saying the word "fireball!" doesn't cause a gout of flame to burst from your finger tips (which is where most magic emits from most humans and humanoid immortals due to the importance of the hands in everyday life). You train yourself to use that word as a focus, and that word only. In theory you can use any word for any spell, but when you're saying what you're about to do it gives you a clearer picture in your mind of what you want the flow of the worlds to accomplish for you. It takes inhuman amounts of mental power to be able to say "Waterfall" and have something else entirely appear, such as a heatless flame to light a dark path. Some humans use a different language. Using an uncommon word gives it extra "oomph", a dramatic flair that makes it easier for some humans. Des, my main character, uses Spanish. Ginger, another character, uses Onomatopoeia. "Swish" for air spells, "Fwoosh" for flame spells, "Splash" for water, "Zoom" for speed, etc. etc. As a regular human she's limited to the more simple spells, but she has a unique ability in that she's one of the few who can use various magic words an achieve the same spell. "Zoom" could really be "splash", or "splash" be "fwoosh." It makes her hard to predict.

As for "death spells," there are none, though most creatures do die when they erupt into flame or are shot through the heart.

Anyway, this is really just me dribbling. I like to write things down to try and see it for what it is so I can go back and smooth out the rough edges. Any comments, anyone?

#9 Aug 07th 2007, 4:28pm . Edited Aug 07th 2007, 4:30pm
Akhdar
Something that I always consider when I’m trying to make a new form of magic is this: what is its cost? Magic has to cost something, or everyone would do it all the time. What’s the point of the hero’s heroic struggle if he just needs to snap his fingers and the ‘danger’ is taken care of? Now, when I say cost, most people think ‘mana’ or ‘spiritual energy’, channeled through the caster’s body and renewable from a good night’s rest. Those work, but if you’re aiming for a truly unique form of magic, try something different. I’ll show you an example of what I mean.

I was at a writing seminar with Orson Scott Card, who is better known for his science fiction, but is a rather unique fantasy writer as well. He threw this question out to us: what fuels magic? Where should it derive its power? He shot down the obvious answers (willpower, the world’s natural force, life force of the wizard or others), but he stopped when someone shouted out ‘memories’. He asked ‘whose’? The obvious answer was the wizard, but he didn’t like that, so we considered if it drew upon the memories that others close to the wizard had of him. By using magic, he was slowly erasing himself from the lives of those he loved. Imagine, by using this power, you’re losing your friends and family; they’ll no longer remember you. Who would dare use this dread power?

As to the question of ‘how renewable is this magic’, we determined that for the wizard to continue having power, he had to be constantly making close friends, knowing well that he was going to sacrifice this close bond with them at some future date. Magic is this world wouldn’t be the domain of the introverted sociopath, but of the extroverted ‘politician’ that no one would remember afterwards. Can you imagine the power that a wizard-king, known and loved by his citizens, would have at his disposal? Granted, by using up all that power, he would have to start from scratch to return to his former glory, but still, we’re talking world-altering magic there. Also, with this magic, would you really have enemies? Would other wizards retain their memories of each other?

He then asked us what we thought about this story idea using this magic system: a wizard needs to cast a powerful spell to save his town, but we’re seeing this from the point of view of his wife. She knows that his casting this great spell would erase him from her mind, but she’s willing to make that sacrifice for the town. Imagine her dismay when he does cast it and she doesn’t forget a thing, but the lady next door no longer remembers the wizard, proving that he’s been having an affair for who knows how long. She knew that he had to sacrifice the memories of his beloved, only to realize that his beloved isn’t her. By finding an unique cost to magic, he came up with a fascinating story idea in under twenty minutes.

In most stories I’ve read, magic is drawn either from the world (the whole mana concept) or from study of arcane texts (spell books), etc. However, those are common magic systems in fantasy and I feel that if you want to create a truly unique story, you should choose a unique cost to magic, which is the heart and soul of fantasy. What does the wizard do to cast magic? Shed blood? Lose substance? Age? What are they giving up to do what they must?

#10 Mar 15th, 8:49pm
Akhdar
I went over that post and decided to add some more.

In one of my stories (Power’s Price), I simply opted for using the wizard’s body as the fuel for magic. It goes through the most expendable to the most important, so at first the wizard is simply using up the food that he’s recently eaten. If they run out, they begin sacrificing non-vital body mass, such as fat. Once that’s finished, they have to begin destroying their own vital organs to fuel their magic, such as their muscles, lungs, heart, etc. That’s the cost, so basically as long as the wizard has a steady food source and enough time to eat and rest, they won’t run out of power. Additionally, with this system, isn’t a fat wizard more dangerous than a skinny wizard?

That’s the price, but the actual way of converting the sacrificed thing into power is more complex. You need three things to use magic effectively: Power, Knowledge and Focus. Power- what I just explained (food, fat, body). Knowledge- by understanding how the world works, you can go about using your power to create specific changes (lighting a fire by understanding how sparks are needed to catch the tinder on fire). Focus- If the wizard gathers some of their power on one point of a stone wall, they can cause it to collapse whereas if they just hit the entire wall with all their power, it will only tremble. This is accomplished by mental concentration.

Magic itself is classified in three categories: Body magic (dealing with all things physical: healing, flight, controlling fire, etc.), mind magic (dealing with all things mental: causing certain emotions in the target, controlling dreams, making illusions, etc.) and soul magic (dealing with anything beyond our current understanding: prophecy, resurrection, etc.) I simply placed body magic as the simplest and therefore the most common of magics, followed by mind magic as more complex and therefore rarer. I explained the theory behind soul magic, but then explained that such was a lost art and no longer possible.

That’s an example of my choosing a ‘cost’ for magic, how magic is used (i.e. what is needed to convert cost into result), and then the division of magic itself (what it can accomplish). That’s some things I like to flesh out in my magic systems to help my stories become unique.

#11 Mar 15th, 9:43pm
Lady Polgara
I just stick to the "Will and the word"

Hope that helped

#12 Mar 15th, 9:48pm
Marinus
Wow, very innovative there, Akhdar. I must remember that. But the will and the Word a la David Eddings is good, too.
#13 Mar 20th, 3:46am . Edited Mar 20th, 3:46am

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