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Major Daniels had moved to the front line and was also horrified by the senseless killing of his ally by the Rakarskian commissar. He quickly signaled his men and before the commissar could move on he had a tranquilizer in his neck and was being dragged to a prison cell with his weapons being taken, with more troops guarding him. Major Daniels addressed the Rakarskian troops and any others who were listening. "Just because this is war doesn't mean we don't have laws. Your commander has committed murder on Galerii land, and he will stand trial for his crimes. If anyone has a problem with this please talk to my negotiator." While saying this he pointed to his gun, "Now let's move, and relay the message that if your commanders want to kill Rakarskians that's fine, but if they start killing Galerii or HC soldiers they will face the consequences. Now lets move, tanks can't win a battle and they need our support."

1/31/2009 #211
awilla the hun

((The Imperial Soldiers have sufficient defensive technology-very robust power armour- to charge through the enemy guns-and they have assault rifle lasers blazing away, with grenades and a lot of supporting fire.))

The Marines, under the cover fire of their allies, crashed into the HSA lines. Mere knifes were useless against their armour. They slaughered their way through.


The Rakarskian troops nearby raised their rifles and opened fire at Major Daniels and his men for drugging their Commissar.

But, in the trenches below, more slaughter was about to be unleashed.

The penal legions made their charge now. Whistles were blown, Commissars cocked their weapons, and they made a cry that was part terror, part anger, part blind rage. Seventy thousand men in their close line now hurled themselves at the enemy. "Charge, Comrades!" their Commissar General called to all nearby units. "Crush the Imperialists!"

They advanced towards the front and part of the right flank of the Imperial attack.

2/1/2009 #212

Aren watched in concern the unfolding battles for control of the asteroid. A needless slaughter, a terrible waste of life for a barren rock high overhead. A terrible thought struck him.

"Generals," he murmured. "May I ask - what sort of defences does Untreu have at close range? Say, if the Third Empire has simply been placing demolition charges throughout the asteroid or lasers it apart, what sort of response could we get?"

2/1/2009 #213
awilla the hun

The door of HQ burst open as a communications officer rushed in gripping a typed message in a shaking hand. Stock grabbed it and read it quickly.

"Comrades," he said, "for some reason, it seems that our troops are firing upon the HSA. They do not usually do this without provocation. Can someone explain, please?" He looked at Thaegnuri expectantly.

Stretcher bearers were already rushing over to the scene, guarded by a full platoon of Grenadiers.

2/1/2009 #214

((awilla, no armor can withstand point blank fire when men are charging, especially not one in a vacuum and if my knives are useless than so are your bayonets! and yes some of my men would die, but almost none from the actual bayonet charge!))

The Major Daniels was protected by his line of soldiers who also opened fire on the Rakarskians, both outnumbering and outgunning them. HC ships moved in just below the Rakarskian transporters. They were told that Rakarskians had opened fire on HC soldiers and that if they landed any troops before this was sorted out they would be open fired upon and that it would be a declaration of war.

2/1/2009 #215
awilla the hun

((They are Grenadiers. They are not outgunned by the HC. Both have automatics quite capable of dealing with each other's armour.))

"Cease fire! Cease fire! STRETCHER BEARERS!" Both sides had a number of wounded that needed seeing to. Reluctantly, the Grenadiers stopped firing, along with the Commissar's staff officers who had drawn weapons.

((Chain bayonets. They will rip through your armour, which you quoted earlier as being useless against impacts less than 50 feet away or something like that. And this isn't exactly miles of Belgian or French soil, but a confined ship's bridge filled with soldiers. Also, the said soldiers are firing when marching, and have a lot of covering fire. See the link I posted in OOT for more details on how a charge can actually work even against modern tanks.))

2/1/2009 #216
awilla the hun

((Oh, and on how the Scottish charge charge worked from a military seeming site:

"Also, keep in mind this wasn't a line up and charge in a row assault.. it was a fixed bayonet bound over with a lot of grenades and LMG/Rifle support fire as they advanced.. So you have a lot of really pissed off guys rushing at you while taking turns suppressing you with fire until others get in grenade range.. Pucker factor extrremely high for both sides..but the side thats moving has the initiative and a pschological advantage.. the momentum they get will usually overcome the enemy and break them.."

Rather like the Third Empire, I think.

We forget about morale too much. The Rakarskians have Commissars threatening to shoot them if they leg it. The Mirevant League, however, didn't have this; and, despite of all their citizens being taught of the city's mythic prowess, their general actually had to remotely control their transports towards the Survaek lines to make them face their firepower. The Third Empire have both training, propaganda and a lot of firepower. The HSA and HC? "Just" well trained soldiers, who by all accounts come from a liberal democracy without brutal discipline or a militaristic history. They're brave, for sure, but-and this has been shown throughout the ages- there is something about cold steel that just causes terror. It looks far more inherently threatening, especially when wielded by a massively tall super human in black, threatening power armour who doesn't have a very long distance to cover before he's upon you.))

2/1/2009 #217

General Thaegneri turned to the the Siridar general.

"Good Aren, we can target asteroid chunks with anti-starship guns from the planet, as well as with our space force. However, some level of damage would be unavoidable. Fortunately, the Third Empire does not have enough ground on the asteroid to destroy it with charges, nor do they have enough lasers to tear up such a large rock in less than eight days' bombardment. This battle should be far more brief than that."


The heavy weapons infantry and fortress snipers continued giving support fire for the Rakarskian assaulters.

The armored regiment came at the Third Empire infantry line, careful to attack from an area clear of Rakarskian infantry. As the tanks drew near, they let loose a volley of explosive grapeshot into the enemy ranks, followed by repeating fire from the semi-automatic cannons. Small heavy machinegun turrets on the tanks opened fire with armor-piercing .50-caliber rounds at 900 rounds per minute. To add to the already gargantuan amount of firepower it poured into the Third Empire troops, the armored regiment drove straight into and through the mass of soldiers, knocking down and running over dozens at a time. Even powered armor could not resist a direct hammering by several thousand tons of metal.

At the back of the Galerii heavy weapons force, commanders were yelling out for the fight between the Rakarskians and HC to cease. Medics not already occupied rushed to help fallen allies from both sides.

2/1/2009 #218
awilla the hun

The Galerii Tank Regiment was heavily targeted by orbital gunfire, as well as the Laser Cannons carried by some infantrymen (and their battle tanks.)

The Imperial Troops withdrew to the captured trenches, where they began to put up a more serious resistance (for they couldn't be ran over in the trenches, and they had some cover from enemy weaponry.) The Penal Battallions were allowed to approach to one kilometer, before the laser guns commenced firing.

Now it was a simple matter of brute manpower against sheer enemy firepower. Whole platoons were simply swept away, but the great wave of troops continued their advance. By the time they reached the 500 metre mark, six thousand men lay dead, and only then were they allowed to fire as they advanced (although their rifles had a far longer range than this.) And even then their fire was largely inneffective.

Any man who wavered even for a moment was shot. Any man who stood still was shot. Any man who took cover was shot. The Commissars counted almost five hundred battlefield executions, that day, but they still forced their charges on, and on. Lasers fired until barrels glowed, and power packs began to empty. And all the while the Imperial Troops could see the hated Commissars with their weapons loaded, and the thin, crumbling line of troops in front of them, and the massively long bayonets slotted into rifles, and even some men who lacked even rifles, and simply had to wait for a corpse with an intact weapon whilst they marched.

The regiment of Imperial troops sent out to face them withdrew when the penal battallions reached fifty yards. With a cheer of relief, the battallions arrived in the trenches, only to discover that they were just preparing a defence of the next section. Once again, they were herded through them with bayonets bright. Once again, they bloodily managed to break through. And so it went on, section after section, with hardly an Imperial casualty.

After losing thirty thousand men, the advance was finally halted. Barricades were built in sections, and rifles were loaded.

2/2/2009 #219

The armored regiment was able to escape much of the orbital fire through its constant mobility at high speed. Nevertheless, thirteen tanks were lost to bombardment, four to anti-tank weaponry. The mass of armor was able to catch up to and batter down some of the enemy infantry before the latter force took cover in trenches. As they did so, the tanks, continuing their advance, came at deadly close range to the enemy and poured explosive grapeshot and machinegun bullets directly into their trenches.

With much more ground being opened up, the Galerii colonel ordered the heavy weapons divisions and the HC force to advance. The support of their explosives would be quite helpful to the penal battalions and Grenadiers.

As Third Empire troops retreated from one cover to another farther back, the fortress snipers took advantage of every moment the enemies were exposed to rain heavy, deathly accurate fire upon the opposing infantry. The redoubts themselves also continued their artillery barrage, focusing on the enemies farthest back to avoid friendly fire.

((I expect that those Third Empire chaps who expect a relieving guard or reserve duty behind the front lines will be in for quite an explosive surprise.))

2/2/2009 . Edited 2/3/2009 #220
awilla the hun

((You know, before describing any naval weapon as innaccurate, it is perhaps best to remember that most are capable of accurately hitting targets moving at thousands of miles per hour from whole light minutes away. Tanks moving at, say, fourty or fifty miles per hour on an asteroid perhaps a mile away aren't going to be that difficut to hit.))

With another great roar, the Penal Battallions tried to attack again, only to be hurled back as UberStukas swept low over the battlefield, pouring lasers, missiles, and bombs into enemy troops and tanks. The Third Empire could still dislodge them from the asteroid, despite its losses.


A Federation Carrier group- five carriers-arrived in the system. Moments later, the holographic map of the battlefield in the HQ began to flicker. The shape of a group of heads, one human, most alien, seemed to be trying to replace it.

2/3/2009 #221
Sarah Crowning

((It seems everyone's forgotten about the warp jammer. :( ))

2/3/2009 #222
awilla the hun

((That was just me. Sorry. The Carrier Group will have to wait until after the battle, which will take weeks to finish I imagine. It certainly will if there's as much bitching and mutual misunderstanding as on Isai...))

2/3/2009 #223

((fine awilla, but bayonets aren't anymore effective than knives would be, except that they have a longer range, and the fact that they are chainsaws))

The HSA lost just as many men in the charge, if not more, than the Third Empire did. They retreated to the opening, giving the impression that they were being outgunned. The silent nuke sat behind the Imperial troops, out of site and minutes from blowing.

2/3/2009 #224

((Yes, but a tank is considerably smaller than a spaceship and is far more difficult to detect because it does not create huge amounts of exhaust or emit powerful signals like a spaceship. Also, GRM main battle tanks move at a maximum of eighty miles per hour, not at relatively sluggish SEM speeds.

What you should have got on to me for was my admitted mistake of myself using flamethrowers in an airless environment! I will correct that.))

REVISED SECTION OF POST: ...the tanks, continuing their advance, came at deadly close range to the enemy and poured explosive grapeshot and machinegun bullets directly into their trenches.

((Now for my next response.))

The hundreds of railgun and rocket artillery from the dozens of redoubts firing kept pouring over the Third Empire front ranks into their middle and back lines, filling them with a plethora of high-explosive plasma detonations and shrapnel. The myriad of fortress lasers, smaller missile pods, and machineguns, however, quickly concentrated a barrage onto the incoming bombers. Most weapons had a much extended range and somewhat better accuracy (the AA guns, the artillery, and small arms) on the airless asteroid.

Soldier were still somewhat shaken inside by the sudden thrust into the horror a live combat situation, but with massive reinforcements and with the new advance occupying their minds, they pressed on more eagerly than earlier in the battle.

2/3/2009 . Edited 2/3/2009 #225

Mitchell Henderson secretly boarded a dropship accompanied by a small platoon of commandos and three fighters, enough where the ships would not look like an attack force and would not be noticed by allies during the battle. They flew towards the Third Empire formation, flashing signals of peace and when close enough requested to speak to a third party representative too propose an offer to help them in this war.

2/3/2009 #226
awilla the hun

((What's this great champion of liberty doing now?))

The "signs of peace" took some time to interpret (and several laser shots were fired in their direction.) When it was registered that no return fire was coming at them, the largest remaining vessel, the Spirit of Nordics opened its hangar bay, and recieved them with a reception of its entire marine contingent.

Lord Captain Hochmann clicked his heels to Henderson, and asked him what he was doing there.


Whilst Dreadnoughts Kappa and Theta slowly turned away from their attack on a part of the Empire Flotilla (which had recently been defeated by the Survaek), and began to make their way towards the main battle above the asteroid. Their prow batteries were already pouring hydrogen shot towards the enemy. One of these made a glancing blow on the shields of the Nordics.

2/4/2009 #227
awilla the hun

((Kross, how is the nuke concealed? And they are still using old fashioned sword style bayonets-22inches, plus rifle.))

The Empire Captain beheaded the HSA commander with one swipe of his sword, before sending his reverse stroke into a senior sergeant who had tried to fend him off with his dagger. Around him, his soldiers continued to fight through their foes, largely beating them. Here and there, a black armoured soldier fell, clubbed to death by scores of rifles, or shot at close range. "You will surrender!" the captain barked at his opponent, his translator harshly doing its work. A pistol swung up, only to be beaten aside by his gauntlet. The chainschlaeger was rammed into the melee once again. "Surrender!"

One of the Empires' enemies screamed foully as he was melted from an acid grenade.


Thanks to the massive bombardment, the Empire was being pushed back, and their defensive perimeter was decreasing (for it was now defensive.) A bomber dropped a small atomic bomb on the enemy fortresses (just a small one) to try and finish their massive attack.

Another human wave attack was began by the Penal Battallions. The Galerii defences were now working against them, as the gaps between trenches had to be crossed under heavy fire. But still they were reluctantly forced into the enemy guns, until the Empire actually produced acid sprayers and melted them back, the sheer horror of their weapons outdoing any terror of Commissars. But now they were firing themselves across the trenches, in a vicious little duel that proved costly for the Empire. The Penal Battallions all had some training in marksmanship, and the Empire had run out of offensive momentum. Sheer weight of fire (and the greater ability of an unarmoured man to hide than a massively armoured one) was beginning to take its toll. The Grenadiers joined them, and added their own fire.

2/4/2009 #228

((Remember, awilla, bayonets can miss, and are much less versatile than knives. Also remember that Kross's troops are well-trained, the best of his best, in fact. They know how to effectively dodge, block, parry, etc.

Now, for this post, I assume that the atomic bomber is high-flying, or else it would be much more likely to be shot down before reaching its target.))

The atomic radiation of the bomb was detected, activating computer emergency alerts in milliseconds. The bomb was targeted and shot in less than a second by the nearest alerted rapid-lasers. The explosion did little damage to the forts when so high above; the heat did somewhat weaken the outer plating of the closest redoubts. What would likely suffer far more damage was the Third Empire's own air force.

((Before you start protesting, remember that the Galerii, having over twenty years' war-experience with the Survaekom, are prepared for bombs, common SEM weapons -although theirs are filled with plasma rather than radioactive materials-.))

After receiving reports of friendly fire on the Rakarskians from the observing heavy weapons division radio men (and women), the artillery targeted enemy ranks even farther back, now concentrating almost entirely on what would be the Third Empire back-lines, rear-guards, and reserves. Although this would provide ther advancing Rakarskians with less support fire, it would ensure the crippling of the enemy's ability to reinforce themselves. The excaption was in fortress laser cannons, which continued firing upon aircraft along with the AA weaponry.

Cover for the Rakarskians was, however, provided by the heavy weapons, who had just now been ferried more ammunition through the tunnel network. Now all of the about 19,500 soldiers (about 500 casualties have been taken from bombardment) were able to pour explosives into the Third Empire troops. The force moved about fifty meters behind the Rakarskian lines, close enough for grenades to be thrown overhead into opposing infantry. Soldiers with missile launchers and mortars, too close for effective anti-infantry fire, used their explosives against the towering Katze tanks.

The tanks continued pouring explosive grapehot and .50-caliber bullets into the enemy trench until all those inside were either dead or had retreated, after which the tanks moved on to the next trench. When the armored regiment finally came in range of enemy armor, they conducted evasive maneuvers and switched to armor-piercing cannonshells, which all easily hit the enormous Third Empire Katzes with the help of computer targeting systems, even as the GRM tanks maneuvered at over sixty miles per hour. Fifteen more tanks were lost.

2/4/2009 #229

((Awilla, the HSA was retreating from the bayonet charge while opening fire, so the commander would not have been within range. And the nuke is in a console which a piece of metal was removed and re-welded shut, hardly noticeable but still noticeable, just not in the middle of a battle.))

Mitchell Henderson met Captain Hochman and after a few formalities he got to the point, "My nation's leader, Kent Jeffery's, is blinded by visions of grandeur and noble intentions, but I am not swayed in my pursuit by these types of things. I believe we can be beneficial to each other. As you know, we hate the Survaek and they are the reason we seceded from the HSA. Our most inspired leader and my personal brother, Daniel Henderson, was the only other one to see the truth behind the Survaek, and he was imprisoned for his foresight of the dangers to come. We have not the manpower nor the technology to free him, but you do. And don't think this will be for not, we can provide a service that can help you win this war. It is obvious to all you are losing this battle, but if this were solely the Galerii you could easily have destroyed them, but all of the nations here are unified, in the Galactic Senate. It is this unification that allows them to respond to each other's needs so quickly, if we removed this unification you could easily divide and conquer each individual nation. We know where this senate is, and can help you take out preliminary defenses so your fleet will suffer minimal losses. We will give you the key factor that will let you win this war, and all we ask in return is to not be conquered and for you to free a single prisoner. If you agree we will send you the coordinates of this prison's location.

2/4/2009 #230
awilla the hun

((Knife vs power armour= a slight nick in power armour, and a knifeman desperately tugging at his weapon before having his head punched off in one blow by an Imperial Marine.

The nuke would SHATTER every computer on the asteroid. It would also blast outwards, thus blowing a pretty big hole in many things. And you are inconsistent: when you use experience to justify things, it is because you have been engaged in perfectly acceptable events outside the forum. But when I do, it's immediately illegal. And, on another note: you haven't mentioned these defences before, when bombs have been literally raining down for a sizeable part of the battle, and they would almost certainly have been in use then. I use your own arguments against you.

And the enormous Katzes are far larger, far better armed, and far better armoured than your own vehicles.))

The Third Empire held their line, moving troops forward to reinforce the trenches against the Rakarskian infantry, and Galerii bombardment (as yet more lasers blasted down.)


Lord Captain Hochmann looked critically at Henderson. How could he trust a traitor to his own country and alliance? And there was a more important problem. "The enemy," he said, "have set up some foul machinery to prevent us from making such a manouvere. And we already know full well where the Senate is, and that our enemies could simply move troops there and attack our fleet once more. Even if we were to accept your offer, it would be impossible to carry out."

((If the Rakarskians get wind of this, the supply of arms will probably dry up immediately. Simply put, they may dislike the Survaek, but they absolutely despise the Third Empire.))

2/5/2009 #231

((The same argument could be made for bayonet vs. HSA armor.

As for the nuke, remember what mindwarp said: the power of a nuclear weapon is greatly reduced in an airless environment, especially in the case of an H-bomb, I believe. I never mentioned the anti-bomb defenses before because they were never used before. In a situation where several planes are dropping hundreds of bombs, it is more efficient to take out the planes than the gargantuan multitude of bombs. But, when a single, extremely powerful bomb is employed, it is imperative that this particular bomb be eliminated as a first priority. It is that simple. In addition, such defenses are a simple matter of targeting the source of radiation with already deadly-accurate rapid fire lasers, not some immensely complex system that has barely ever been been hinted at before.

Although your Katzes are bigger and better, there are only seven of them, and almost eight hundred GRM main battle tanks.))

The GRM forces kept up their attack.

((Short post meets short post. Also remember that any troops "moving forward" would have already suffered bombardment from a rain of several hundred plasma beams, large rockets, and railgun shells.))

2/5/2009 #232
awilla the hun

((I sigh to myself. No, this forum hasn't changed at all.

Are you forgetting that the Third Empire have CHAINSAWS as bayonets and swords? Modern wood cutters use them for a reason to cut down trees for a living: that they are far more rippy than a glorified table knife used by the HSA. Not to mention that the Third Empire have better armour, and that Kross mentioned at some point that his armour was useless at ranges closer than 20 feet or so. Toe to toe death matches are as close as it gets, whilst power armour is useful all the way.

And if you have several quick firing lasers, you could conceivably fire at both planes and their bombs and, if not kill them all, then at least substantially reduce the amount of bombs tipping down. As it was, you didn't do so, which leads me to consider this as some last ditch deus ex machina defence.))

The Third Empire now inadvertantly regained their attacking momentum: the land behind them had shells being rained down on it. So they, once again, counter attacked with naval lasers raining down around them.

The penal battallion in their path simply fled after their commissar was killed, only to run into the fire of a section of Grenadiers who happened to be nearby. Despite once again taking losses, the Empire attacked again.

2/7/2009 #233

((Fine, I agree now about the chainsaws, but I think that when Kross stated that his armor was ineffective at 20 feet, he was referring to bullets, not melee weapons. Nevermind that, though. It is all in Kross's hands, and apparently he has given in.

As for the lasers, they would be firing at planes and bombs if it weren't so difficult to take down the planes in the first place. Already with all of this continuous AA fire, you haven't mentioned more than sventy or so planes being downed, which would suggest that they cannot effectively shoot at planes and bombs. All efforts were concentrated on the planes and only seventy were destroyed, now think of what would happen if only half of those AA lasers were firig at the planes.))

As the penal battalion fled, heavy weapons covered their retreat; grenades landing among the enemies' feet and incinerating everything within a four meter radius and blowing shrapnel even farther. Third Empire troops who survived the grenades were subject to heavy sniper fire, as .50-caliber explosive rifle rounds blew heads clean off. The GRM divisions held their ground: if the enemy managed to get past the Rakarskians, they would hit a rain of armor-piercing assault rifle rounds and shotgun slugs.

The missile-launchers and mortars, at the back of the GRM ranks, kept up fire onto enemy tanks, covering their hulls with fiery explosions. The GRM tank force also concentrated its efforts on the nearest tank, sending hundreds of armor-piercing explosive shells boring into the Katze and bursting.

2/7/2009 #234

((Power armour cannot protect at close range, ALL armor is ineffective at close range and against melee weapons for the simple fact that it is a constant presure being applied, NO armor can be effective at close range! Both sides took about equal damage, as both of our nations are overpowered, mine because of my small amount of troops and yours because of your lack of allies, I think this is a pretty equal battle.))

2/7/2009 #235
Sarah Crowning

((Wait... What? That makes no sense.))

2/7/2009 #236
awilla the hun

((Kross. Now, let's have a little history lesson.

Once upon a time, in a land known as Europe, Asia and much of the civilized world-yes, before modern America (for back then, Indians wore virtually no armour, although wooden shields were not unknown), there were a band of soldiers called Knights. Now, these fellows wore a wide variety of armour, from chain mail, to full plate, to even leather coats. Now, in Asia, there were another band of soldiers called Samurai, who also wore various types of armour, including European armour when they could get their hands on it (this is true, by the way.) And in the Levant, there were another band of soldiers called Jannissaries, who also wore armour. These were all effective against the vast majority of melee weapons at the time, and even many ranged weapons.

Let us now fast forward about three hundred to three thousand years, into the Napoleonic Wars, which happened when there was modern America, which mysteriously managed to both attack French ships and commit piracy on English ones. Now, even though armour was being worn less then, most armies employed armoured heavy cavalry, known as "Cuirasseurs", who wore cuirasses (breast and backplates) that could withstand musket bullets, swords, lances, and bayonets. These, too, were effective against melee weapons.

Even now, our policemen wear things called "stab vests" which can withstand attacks by knives.

Kross, believe you me, I am no scientist. But I know full well that armour can withstand melee weapons, simply because we have overwhelming historical, scientific, cultural ("knight in shining armour"), and eye witness evidence of armour doing just that throughout much of human history. I rest my case.))

2/7/2009 #237

((MW, what kross is saying is that both the HC and the Third Empire get to have super-powerful troops, the former because of its small numbers and the latter because of its inability to have allies.))

2/7/2009 #238
awilla the hun

((I think that it may be the bit about melee weapons that MW is getting worried about. It's certainly far less comprehensible.))

2/8/2009 #239

((That is a good argument awilla, but stab vests cannot withstand against all knives, a lot of the bigger one's don't work. now, with all knights and samurais and jannisarries in history, let me ask you why we dont use them today? because when people develop armor other people develop weapons to break through that armor. And if your armor is that strong it would have to be so heavy you could never execute a bayonet charge. And you are forgetting that this is a vacuum environment, I could stab through a soft spot in your elbow and it would completely expose him to the -269 degrees celsius and zero pressure environment!))

2/8/2009 #240
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