The Roadhouse
It's simple. Come in here, get reviews, read good stories, meet interesting people. What's not to love? Open to all. Rock and roll.
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Mi.Ishi

Calling all patrons!

I posted a few days ago that I was going to start this thread. It is meant as a neutral place to discuss the goings-on of RH, as well as a place to discuss where we've come from and where we hope to go from here. This is following a very good question that Lianoid brought up, which I felt was very valuable to the rest of the patrons.

We've had some really odd times, and as I intend to stick around for a while (longer than Momo, definitely), I'd like to hear what everyone's opinions are, and hear what they'd like to see changed.

I encourage people to check out the Questions thread to see Lianoid's question, and my response, to see where we're both coming from. I especially encourage ANYONE to participate in this, and will likely call in some of the original members of the RH back.

TWO THINGS BEFORE BEGINNING:

1. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Therefore, I ask that everyone be civil and well-written when writing their responses.

2. Please do not target any one person, call them stupid, cuss them out, or whatever. This is not meant for that. I'm just trying to get the RH back on its feet, and so is everyone that is going to participate (I should hope).

Cheers!

Your mod, Shay

7/26/2010 #1
Sakina the Fallen Angel

Hey, would it be worth having a chatbox on an external site that we can link to here, so people can go and chat live in a group situation?

After installing a chat box on another forum, I found it a hell of a lot easier to get to know people and since then, the community there has been very tight. I know that the old patrons have that tightness, but for these days, there are so many new people, and the OT threads aren't moving like they used to either, so maybe some sort of live chat may revive the old feeling of community that seems to have ah...gone dormant now.

I know this is an odd request, but I've always wanted to get to know you guys in more depth ^^

7/26/2010 #2
Creeping Collarbones

I know I haven't been posting here long at all, but I thought I'd add my opinion.

I think the bar is very relaxed, it's not intimidating. I thought of the Review Game as intimidating. . And it seems that one of the goals of this board is to not be like the Review Game. I was never sure if I was ever reviewing right at the RG. That's why I came here.

I, personally, like that you don't have to return every review, even though the nice thing to do is return them and mostly everyone does. It gives you more time to review more stories and then return them, when you get the chance. And being new, I learned what kind of reviews to give and return. I like that there isn't an exact structure. It makes it easier, even kind of fun, too.

I don't really see any problem with the bar. I think if you recieve a one liner, then don't return it at all, since you really don't have to. Or, maybe, tell them what kind of reviews you are looking for and those are the ones you'll most likely return.

Again, these are just my thoughts as a newbie here. (:

7/26/2010 #3
Sakina the Fallen Angel

You make good points, and your reasons are the same as mine for coming here instead of the RG. This place is more of an open market, with each writer clamouring to have their works advertised. I like the pick and choose aspect of the place.

I just feel these days that the bar is too too crowded, and that I don't know anyone anymore (har har my own fault for going MIA during semester) which is taking the fun out of it slightly. At the bar, I used to feel comfortable; these days I feel like a n00b again. Eh, but that's easily rectified wth patience.

IMO, I don't think this place needs changing; I just feel that people only come here now to get reviews and not to hang out or chat like we used to, which is something I miss. I'm not sure what can be done to get the OT threads moving again, as that was something carried forth by a whole community that would just come here to hang out.

7/26/2010 #4
WutNow

Ey there :D.

As always, I'm a little lost for what is actually going on XD, but I did head over to the Questions Thread and skimmed through it. And since you encouraged everyone to participate, here I am :D.

Here are my thoughts...

First of all, I liked the idea of exchanging long/in depth reviews with other authors. Reading their comments are encouraging and helps you improve better as an author. However, I do understand that people here are of different ages, so their reviews might not be as in depth or high quality as others might want. Plus, if a person keeps asking for long reviews only (and ignore the one-liners), it makes the other author feel forced to read their work rather than enjoy it.

So I think it is only fair that the reviews a person recieve should reflect the ones they return. That way, it is easy street for both people ^^

Also, if a person doesn't return a review, then just stop reviewing their work, that simple. It is kind of a blurry line between "courtesey to return reviews" and "required/mandatory." I just think "courtesey" is the right choice :).

I also think that there should be more participants in the review exchange. I know there are a few regulars already in the bar, but I think it should be our duty to spread the word to other others, both new and old. For example, Angel's Requiem was the person who introduced me in the bar. In the beginning, the way I get reviews, is read other people's work and ask for them to read mine in return (if they were interested). If they did, I return the review again. If they don't, it's fine, I enjoyed the read :). However, ever since I got into the bar, I haven't been reading other people's work away from the bar. So basically, it is the same exact people reading chapters among chapters of a person's work. Basically, you are exposing your work to a small audience. Therefore, I'm always checking the "New Chapters"/ "New Story" section ^^.

I think, as RH regulars, we should help spread the word about the bar :). I introduced a few people to come here, so I'm happy about that. I was also thinking of making a youtube vid about the Roadhouse, to help spread the word, you know what i'm sayin? But I need permission... and I don't know how to ask.... (you COUGH XD). Anyway, just tossing it out there.

Oh! Also, to limit spamming, I think that you should only post your review list when you have a total of at least five or ten reviews already given. It's kind of lame if you have only reviewed 1 or 2 people and then ask for reviews on yours (I know I have done this too, and I am greatly ashamed of it XD). But yeah, that would definitely keep the board a little more organized with less spam, etc.

Hmmm.... that is all I have to say for now. I hope this helps? Love you :)

-Agent

7/26/2010 #5
this wild abyss

I think I'm okay with the 'you don't have to return' reviews thing, for for the most part. I was around when Momo was in charge, and while I liked knowing that I would always be reciprocated, sometimes it got annoying to have to read and review a story you honestly couldn't stand. And I don't mind giving out the free reviews, to be honest. I am a bartender, after all. I do like to read other people's works. But at the same time, I understand where other people are coming from. It is extremely annoying to have to spend a good amount of your day giving people nice constructive criticism, when they are not going to do the same for you.

Which brings me to my next topic. We definitely need to get more patrons in here, because while it's great to see the regulars day after day, you can only review what they've got up once, and then you can no longer fill their orders. Seeing the same five or six people here is awesome, and while constantly reviewing their work makes you more acquanted and better able to help them with their work, I'd also like to see some new faces. Which is why we need to reinstate bar runs, I think. To get the word out.

Also, in dealing with the general maintenence of the forum, I think that one active mod might not be enough. You do an awesome job, really, but with all the vastness that you have to look over, I think the job would really be better handled if spread over two or even three peoples' shoulders. That is just my opinion. And perhaps a few more bartenders? I think I might be the only active one, actually. Not sure...

And as to review lengths, I used to give out spectacularly long and detailed reviews. And I still do, sometimes. But I do agree that it seems pointless to spend such a long amount of time trying to help an author, when all they're going to say in their reciprocal review of your work is a simple: "I liked this. Your story is very interesting. Update soon!" And while, at least to me, those reviews are appreciated just as much as longer ones, it does make me wonder if there shouldn't be some sort of guidline for this. I realize that we don't want to become the Review Game, and that is fine. But... Well, I guess there is no good solution to for this predicament. At least not that I can think of.

7/26/2010 . Edited 7/27/2010 #6
AvidWriter-92

EDITED POST:

Okay, so I realized that half of my post got deleted somehow... :P Whoops!

So, here we go again. :)

I like how the Bar is a lot less strict, (makes it a lot more friendly, I guess) but I do agree that some rules need to be established to make things go smoother, and make sure that nobody gets left out. I think that it would be a great idea for the rules to be listed by themselves, so people figure out what's what, and what is expected of them. That being said, I think that there should be a few more bartenders to fill out orders for patrons of the Bar. :) I also agree with Liana and Agent Frap (?) when they say that there should be a required amount that you have to say, and not just a one-liner, because those don't really help at all. But, I don't think that there should be a requirement on what you should say, besides things that you like, obviously. There are times when I can't find anything wrong with a story, so I think that if we do come up with a "required" review thing, then it shouldn't be too strict.

I also like the fact that reviews don't *have* to be returned, but at the same time, I would like it if it was required that you return reviews. I, personally, tend to put a lot of work into my reviews, and it's kind of disappointing when you don't receive the same quality in return, or not at all. My only problem that I have, and just thought of, is what if something comes up unexpectedly, and you are unable to return the reviews you've gotten, if it's mandatory? I think that maybe we should have a thread or at least post that we are unable to return reviews at a certain time, so that people don't get angry with you if you don't return a mandatory review... I don't know exactly how to solve this problem, but that's the only thing that would bug me if reviews are required. :) Otherwise, I think that it's a good idea to have to return your reviews. :)))

I would suggest a couple of things. Perhaps, make a thread about obtaining review buddies for your stories, if you feel frustrated that you aren't receiving the attention that you want for a story? It could be as strict or relaxed as you want to make it; I'm just throwing it out there.

Also, I think that it should be required to say if you are returning a review or not... I think this would be a good idea, just so if you think that the number is off or something, you could simply message the person to see if you were on the same page. Generally, I put "repaying reviews" at the end of my post, and how many I am returning, out of how many I have to return. So, it would look something like... "~Avid, via the Roadhouse Forum. Returning reviews: 1/2."

Again, this is just a suggestion, but I think it would be very helpful for those people who are more interested in returning reviews in a timely manner. :P

I also agree with Agent.Frappuccino, and I think that maybe a team of people should try to recruit more people/ have a larger review squad, so the word can get out there. I find myself reviewing the same people's stuff over and over, so sometimes, I would like to see some new faces. :P

Okay, I think that's everything that I wanted to say... *thinks* Yep, it is. :D

Thanks and I'm excited to see what other people's ideas are. Thanks for making this thread, Mr. Ishi, and hopefully, we can tweak the Forum's rules a bit, and make it better for everyone. :P

~Avid. :)

7/26/2010 . Edited 7/27/2010 #7
Charactarantula

Since my opinion is more important than everyone else's, I figured I would voice it.

The bar does not need to be changed. I don't review everything back, and I remember a bunch of f*** that hated on me for not reviewing some guy back half a year ago. That was never the original point of the bar, nor should it be now. We never were the RG. In fact, I'm pretty sure the RG hate(d/s) us. Leave the bar alone.

The rest of the forum is dead though. I say scrap everything, excluding our old locked threads. Get one OT thread. Not two. I don't know what the f*** that was about anything. The only OT thread there should be is the Shootin' Pool, Shootin' the Breeze. All the old games and s*** that nobody visits? Scrap them.

That's all.

7/26/2010 #8
Dextra

I have been at this forum for all of about twenty minutes, but I like discussion threads. So, here is an opinion from someone just coming.

I visited the Review Game forum, introduced myself there, and began to browse. My first thought was that this was very cramped and unorganized forum. There are what? Over a hundred topics in that forum? Most of them are filled up, others no one visits anymore. The review exchange topic was very messy. It was kind of hard to follow everything. So I left, and never returned.

Usually, I lurk around The Lounge forum. The RG was an unpleasant change from that because it seemed like you were just stuffed with a bunch of other people with no chance to get to know anyone.

My suggestion is get rid of any old, filled up topics. Also any other topics that are old and no one visits anymore. I think that will make the forum look a lot less crowded and will encourage people to keep coming back.

I like the review exchange you guys have. Returning reviews is a nice thing to do, but sometimes you're not always able to do that. I have been replying to every review (sometimes I forget) I get at the very least lately. The problem I see with returning every review you get is what if you have a 30 chapter story and one person reviews every chapter. That's thirty reviews, right? So you go to their profile to return the favor and they only have one short story up. You read it and say you can't find anything wrong with it. On top of that, say you don't like it. Now what are you going to say in your review? You could just say "Great job! I didn't find anything wrong with your writing", but then that's a one-liner and makes you look bad.

With a forum this big, I think there should be more mods. Maybe all from different time zones so there's always someone awake to keep things running smoothly? It'll help keep everything more organized.

I don't know if you have already done this, but don't allow conversations/spamming to go on in topics that are not suited for that.

To help with the advertising, advertise the forum on different writing websites. I liked the Youtube video idea that someone mentioned.

That's all I got. :/

7/26/2010 #9
S. M. Saves

*slinkers in*

Understand that rules are hard to enforce when the patrons are constantly rotating. People come, people stay, and people drift away adding their own little twists to everything. That's probably how the review-for-review exchange came about. Someone started doing it and when new authors settled in they thought that was how the bar operated. It may have also come about to combat the "leeches".

If there is going to be some kind of "List of Rules" it should be short and concise. I, for one, am not going to sit around and read a manual.

It should be "courtesy" to return reviews but not mandatory. If the author doesn't return reviews and you don't like it, stop reviewing him. (Although, technically, if you're constantly nagging everyone to review your work, you should probably do some reviewing too.) Regular bartenders will come in handy here to make sure no one gets jipped. The last thing we want is a patron who requests a review, goes off and reviews other patrons, but then never receives a review in return. The chance of this scenario happening is slim but if we start trying to get more people into the bar then someone might accidentally get overlooked.

As for what should be in the reviews, don't make a mandatory law (i.e. "two good things, two things that need work") because sometimes, for some people, it's almost impossible to find something to criticize. There shouldn't be a punishment for really liking a story that, in one's mind, shouldn't be changed. One liners should still be discouraged though because it's hard to tell if the reviewer actually read the piece at all. Aside from that, review lengths shouldn't be stressed too much. It might put too much pressure on reviewers.

Maintenance-wise, if they haven't been posted on for a year, they should probably go (excluding locked topics).

That's all I have for now. My brain's too bogged down to think anymore. If I think of something else I'll amend it somewhere.

S. M. Saves

EDIT: Sakina had an interesting idea about the live chat box. How would that work exactly? Would someone set up a instant messenger thingy-majig on a site like freewebs (i.e) and link it to the RH? Then we would have to log in under our pen names or get permission from the mod of the site to access it? I'm not putting the idea down. Just interested in more details.

I also like andHeavenfell's "post-once-a-day" idea. It'll help keep the bar cleaner especially if the population of patrons increases. But only in the bar area right? There's no need to put a limit on the posts in areas like The Lounge or The Poolhouse.

7/26/2010 . Edited 7/27/2010 #10
C. Tattiana H-H

All right. I've already thrown down my opinion in the Questions thread, as well as in a PM to Shay, so I won't clog up this thread with too many personal thoughts. I just want to say a few things.

I'm disappointed for a couple of reasons: 1) As much as I respect everyone's opinions and believe in democracy, there are a few people who have posted on this thread (I'm not saying specific names here, nor will I in PMs) who have told me the opposite of what they just posted. I'm not sure if they're intimidated with voicing their opinions publically, or if they're just following the crowd. Either way, I encourage everyone to be honest. I'm not saying any more than that. 2) I don't find the Review Game confusing, and wish people would stop slamming it. It only breeds hostility between the two forums and I think it's getting really old.

I still think people should return reviews. A lot of people who post at The Bar, say in their post that they'll return reviews. So... what, they're just saying that to get reviews? I don't understand how people advertise by saying they're going to repay reviews but don't want all reviews to be returned? I'm not trying to attack anyone, I'm just confused. (Please, don't explain. I really don't care at this point, I'm just tossing in my two cents). I think that having a minimum review requirement (i.e. minimum two-lines – not sentences, lines) would improve the overall standard of the forum and might even help bring in more people and bartenders.

I also still think all of the rules should be posted in one place. I don't find it that difficult to sift through a list of rules (as long as their organized) to find what applies to me. I think that saying that you don't want to have all the rules in one place because it would be too much or too confusing or you don't want to read through them all is just pure laziness.

That's it. I'm not responding to any comments that might be made on this because I've already said my piece on two different occasions before this.

Thank you Shay for posting this discussion board. I think it'll help clear up a lot of things. I'll respect whatever the outcome of this is. As long as everyone's happy, I'm happy.

Liana

7/26/2010 #11
lookingwest

I have never talked on the OT over here, and am more of a regular at the RG than the RH--but I've been frequenting the bar since January, so my input:

In response to various ideas:

This place is more of an open market, with each writer clamouring to have their works advertised. I like the pick and choose aspect of the place.

This is a good way to describe how it's different from the RG. I was never around when this place had actual bartenders, but I liked that idea--I think the RH should go back to its roots as much as possible these days.

But anyway, the thing that annoyed me about the Bar right now is the spam that goes on. In regards to that, I like this opinion:

Also, to limit spamming, I think that you should only post your review list when you have a total of at least five or ten reviews already given. It's kind of lame if you have only reviewed 1 or 2 people and then ask for reviews on yours (I know I have done this too, and I am greatly ashamed of it XD). But yeah, that would definitely keep the board a little more organized with less spam, etc.

Other comments:

I would suggest a couple of things. Perhaps, make a thread about obtaining review buddies for your stories, if you feel frustrated that you aren't receiving the attention that you want for a story? It could be as strict or relaxed as you want to make it; I'm just throwing it out there.

There are already other forums dedicated to this--I'd try to stay as "open market" as the RH can be, again, getting back to your roots, picking and choosing, the freedom of it, etc.

The rest of the forum is dead though. I say scrap everything, excluding our old locked threads. Get one OT thread. Not two. I don't know what the ** that was about anything. The only OT thread there should be is the Shootin' Pool, Shootin' the Breeze. All the old games and ** that nobody visits? Scrap them.

Yes. I very much agree with this too. That turned me off of the RH for awhile--it seemed very un-organized. I couldn't navigate or figure out what was going on--I couldn't even find the Bar, back when I first came. I was hella confused for the first week of being here, I didn't know what the rules were, if there were even rules, or if I needed to return them or not.

This is coming from someone who came from the RG originally (and still frequents and uses the RGs)--coming here was a whole different world. It took me a long time to get used to the idea of not getting every review returned, too, and the fact that there were no rules for reviewing, or a standard. But eventually I learned it's a really cool thing that we have here.

We never were the RG. In fact, I'm pretty sure the RG hate(d/s) us. Not to my knowledge, Jake. But I agree--this is not the RG. The only thing that we have in common with the RG, is a place where people review one another--but even that stands independent.

I visited the Review Game forum, introduced myself there, and began to browse. My first thought was that this was very cramped and unorganized forum. There are what? Over a hundred topics in that forum? Most of them are filled up, others no one visits anymore. The review exchange topic was very messy. It was kind of hard to follow everything. So I left, and never returned.

There are so many things I could say to this, but I am keeping my mouth shut.

If there is going to be some kind of "List of Rules" it should be short and concise. I, for one, am not going to sit around and read a manual.

I'm with Liana in that I think there should be a list of rules in one spot, and also on the first post of every thread. If you don't want to read a manual, then you can skip to the part of the post that pertains to the rule you're looking for--you don't have to sit down and read the entire thing in one sitting.

"two good things, two things that need work" (is that RG's rule?)

Two things that you liked OR two things that you didn't like, and a why for each. That's only two sentences for an Easy Fix review. The funny thing is, I find after being around at the Bar recently, that most people at RH would fulfill the EF review policy very easily.

Alright, so...

First off, the RH needs to stop comparing itself to the RG, or even thinking about the RG. We're not in competition with one another, if anything, we should be helping one another out. The RH is a place for those who like freedom of reviewing who we want, and saying how much we want, and how little we want. We can pick and choose, and they do not have to be limited to one at a time. We can do as much reviewing as we want, or as little as we want. We can choose to return the reviews, or not return them--there are so many choices here, and that freedom was nice and refreshing when I came here.

At the same time, if you're dealing with someone who is having trouble with it, as in, they want return reviews and they're not getting them, or they feel like their efforts are being squandered--try suggesting another review thread forum for them. There's so many! The Gossip, Lounge, WRR, and the RG. They all cater to different types of people and different types of reviewers.

I personally love frequenting both the RGs and the RH Bar. The strength of the RH is that you guys are the hippies of the review threads--you don't have a huge structure with lots of rules--so step back and see it as a strength, realize (though I'm sure you do already), that people don't have to have a huge alliance to just one review thread.

I don't understand why the RG is being brought up over and over again--don't even think about those guys.

Focus here on when the RH was most successful--how many Bartenders did we have? How many people asked for reviews? Past Bartenders--how many orders did you fill a day? Was it doable? Did you enjoy being a Bartender--when you were--were there things that you wished were different?

Count how many regulars we're getting in the Bar right now (there aren't that many, there have to be a maximum of 20--people just keep spamming over and over again a bunch of times a day telling people they'll be gone for the afternoon, etc) , those who have past Bartending experience, figure out how many Bartenders you might need--and make a post in the Bar about needing Bartenders. Make sure that whoever makes the post details what a Bartender is--this would be a good way to recruit bartenders. I seriously think that half of the regulars over at the Bar have no idea at this point what the original RH was even like.

You know, if all the review threads actually worked together and got along, I would suggest also having people see if anyone wants to Bartend on the other forums. The weird taboo of never being able to advertise a new forum (though the RH does have a place for this which is awesome and very progressive) is odd--I don't see it really at the RH, but I have on other forums.

But yeah, this is a cool forum. Definitely. Open minded--a little un-organized (which was the reason I was originally turned off to it), but it's gotten more organized in leaps and bounds within in the past month, and I see us only improving.

Thanks for opening up discussion, Mi.Ishi., that was very kind of you!

7/26/2010 . Edited 7/27/2010 #12
seredemia

Rightio. I'm not going to go into specific, epic detail in here, but I thought I'd just voice my opinions and what not.

The thing that I love about the Roadhouse is the simplicity in it. I like how easy it is to join. It can be your first time being on this forum and you don't have to be confused by a bunch of intricate and picky rules. I also like how all the reviews that you receive from it are varied. Since everyone has a different reviewing style, it decreases the chances that we'll get the same reviews over and over again. So, I don't think we need picky rules on how we should review, like guidelines, etc. However, I agree with Lianoid that we should at least have two lines in the review. Let's face it, one liners aren't the best reviews out there.

And what annoys me about the Roadhouse... Spam. I have actually stopped the alerts from this forum on my account. It simply got way too irritating to find about ten alerts in your inbox from this forum everyday. It annoyed me more when people were posting more than once a day. I think we should all just have one post a day. People need to learn how to edit their posts, because I don't think they do. Either that or they just like seeing their username plastered all over the threads... And I also like the idea of only posting when you have reviewed at least five stories. That should lessen the spam.

As for the rest of the forum. Do people actually go on the other threads aside from the lounge, the bar, etc? I feel as though 70% of this forum is asleep. But, I do like the threads such as the jukebox in my pants (*giggle*) and all those things. I think they add fun into this forum.

Well, I think I covered everything... Either that or I've just forgotten. Anyway, thank you Mi.Ishi for opening this discussion! It's nice to see everyone's opinions and ideas~

7/27/2010 #13
Xx-Angel-of-Shadows-xX

Just thought I'd put my twopenn'orth in...^^

I agree with, as far as I can tell, most other people on here who are saying returning reviews should be "courtesy". It can be really stressful when you look at a list of several hundred reviews, and know you have to return them. Of course, it's wonderful to read the reviews, and if you do have several hundred, mostly from the same person, I think it's only decent to repay their time and effort. However, if somebody drops you a one-liner, and their piece of work is huge, it can only create bad feelings towards the person who reviewed you when you have to trudge through their work and as a result of the length, you most probably have a list of mistakes to point out. So, I agree with Lianoid and andHeavenfell that reviews should be at least two lines long.

I also agree with andHeavenfell that the spam is intensely annoying. The problem is, since nobody inhabits either the Lounge or the Poolhouse anymore, the posts you missed aren't even slightly entertaining to read through. So, if people didn't post until they had reviewed at least five stories, that would be good. However, I think we could edit that to either five stories, or ten chapters, to lessen the pressure on people to review a wide range, if they're really enjoying a specific story.

Yes, half this forum is dead. I agree with Charactarantula that the old games and OT threads like the Jukebox, the Mafia, the Dark Corner of Stalking and High Five should all be scrapped. Not only would it makes this forum much easier for new people to navigate through and understand, it would clear up a lot of stuff so we could start creating new threads if wanted, that people would actually use. However, I wouldn't mind keeping the Lounge, not as a chat thread, but perhaps as a place for newcomers to introduce themselves and chat, rather than just introducing themselves, as they do in the pleasantries. Momo intended it to be a "nice, sweet place for everyone to get along", and maybe that's what the newbies need, but we need to keep the Poolhouse as (from what I can tell from reading through a few of the older ones) a place where people aren't afraid to air their views in whatever manner they see fit. Because, to be honest, yes, arguments can be nasty, but they get a lot out in the open, and in a slightly twisted way, I can find them quite enjoyable. As for the older threads, yes, they were fun....when people used them. Mostly because the regulars who created them and were the main inhabitants are nearly all gone.

Again, agreeing with someone else here - Agent.Frappucino. A youtube video could be fantastic in recruiting, and perhaps if reviewing work outside of the Roadhouse, you could put a small note at the end saying "From the Roadhouse". It will incite curiosity, and if people receive a few reviews all saying this, then most likely they'll start to visit the forum, if anything just to see what it is. Recruitment I think, is necessary to bring this forum back to life, as everyone who used to be on here to do that has got bored with the zombie-like quality of this forum, and just abandoned it. And to be honest, I don't really blame them.

Thanks to Mi.Ishi for letting me get this off my chest, hope it helps with the discussion.

~Star~

7/27/2010 #14
Charactarantula

@andHeavenfell

You can turn alerts off, babe. ;)

7/27/2010 #15
WutNow

Oh, I got a question (might not be an appropriate place to ask it but since it involves RH I might as well), but are people here free to post up new threads? I was wondering how that was handled because there are a few threads out there that announce something or an idea, was answered by regs, and then left there to exist XD. To help things get cleaned up a bit, maybe (for the time being) only Mod's should post up any new threads/ ideas, that way there is no repetetion of dead threads. Authors can leave you a mesage of an idea they have and if the mod chooses to put it up, give credit to the person who gave them the idea. If rejected, respectfully say no? XD. I dunno, just tossing this out there, but it would really help clean things up :).

-Agent

7/27/2010 #16
this wild abyss

On further reflection, all this comparing the Roadhouse to the Review Game has to stop. I'm involved in both forums, and I like the combination of the two very much. The Review Game does not hate us, not in the least bit. And our constant worries about what they are doing are rather unnecessary. I don't find the Review Game to be confusing in the least bit, and if anyone does, they can just ask for advice. If anything, the current setup of this forum is all the more confusing, at least to me.

Oh, and the RULES! It is rather vexing to get a PM from a mod telling you that you've broken a rule, when the rules aren't in a logical place. They should all be very clear, and in the same place, not spread around over a bunch of a little forums. I am not of the opinion that they should be short and concise, though. The rules don't have to be restricting, but they should at least be clear an in-depth enough so that everyone understands.

7/27/2010 . Edited 7/27/2010 #17
this wild abyss

Taken from Lianoid's original post:

I really think people should be required to return reviews. With that being said, I don't return one-liners. Why? Because I'm busy and put a lot of effort into mine. Sure, if I receive a one-liner, I could easily just race through their story and give them the same lack of effort, but I don't enjoy doing that. Still, if I receive a one-liner and I am required to return the review, I will. Most of the time, actually, I won't leave a one liner. Normally, I'll put just as much effort into my review for them as I would some of my other reviews – just to show them what a good review looks like; in the hopes that they will try to step up their review giving game.

This, at least to my mind, is a valid point. While I don't mind free reviews, I would prefer that patrons are required to return reviews. I, myself, am far more likely to review other people's work if I know the same thing is coming my way. And I think other people might be, too. It doesn't have to fancy and in-depth. Just a simple line or two telling the author that you liked their story and pointing out mistakes or good things if you want to. It really isn't that hard of a thing to do.

7/27/2010 . Edited 7/27/2010 #18
Mi.Ishi

Holy. I don't know how I'm going to be able to answer all of you guys well enough individually, so I think I'm going to generalize.

It seems that for the most part everyone is in agreement that reviews are not required to be returned. I like Lianoid's idea though to make a minimum line requirement instead, but that being said, if we're not requiring everyone to return reviews....do we really want to enforce a line requirement as well?

I also think that I need to let you all know what the job of a Bartender is, because they are essentially recruiters. Besides filling the orders at the Bar, they go out into the wide world and just....review. Although they're allowed to ask for reviews, people they review aren't ever required to return their reviews. Adonnen is a Bartender, so her/his job is to just try and fill the orders that haven't been filled, no strings attached. Same goes for any reviews you guys might get from me: you don't need to repay them. Bartenders do these things called "Beer Runs" where they basically go out into the whole of Fictionpress and review the bejeezus out of anything they can get their hands on. It's mass reviewing, and the winner (whoever has the highest number of reviews) gets a trophy in the Trophy Case, and perhaps we could sweeten the deal from now on by having all the participating Bartenders review that person.

Avid is right though: since I did tell people to not talk about Review Buddy stuff at the Bar, I'd be more than happy to get something like that on a separate thread altogether. It'd be similar to the author-editor networking, but more informal. You guys have a good thing going in regards to it, so I think that would be good.

As far as spamming goes, you can turn off alerts by turning off the "Yes, email me when replies are added to this topic" button above the reply box.

I looooooove Agent's idea of creating a vid. That's awesome, I'm totally feeling it. Why not utilize the resources we have, right?

Adonnen: I would love to get another two mods, but that's at Dolvich's call and discretion, and unfortunately he's not around. What I was thinking was getting a couple people to be overseers of a couple of specific threads, and whenever something's up to let me know and we could figure it out together. But as it is, I'm just one person, and until we get everything else settled I can't start appointing people like that.

I will also start scrapping the old games threads, and I can begin to edit The Lounge into something a little different than what it is so that it's a place for newbies to go and get used to RH, and the Poolhouse stays the same.

Okay, what do people think about that stuff so far?

Cheers,

-Shay

7/27/2010 #19
this wild abyss

I like Lianoid's idea though to make a minimum line requirement instead

As do I. Just one like or dislike would be fine. It's not like you can enforce it, but just the friendly reminder would do wonders, I think.

Adonnen is a Bartender, so [her]/his job...

I'm a girl, just for future reference, haha.

I would love to get another two mods, but that's at Dolvich's call and discretion

That's what I figured, but I just wanted to throw it out there, just in case you could do something about it. It's fine, they don't have to be official mods. They can just be unofficial. And lots more bartenders would do wonders, since I'm the only one. (:

7/27/2010 #20
WutNow

Hey Shay, I'm totally down with creating a vid to help promote the Roadhouse :). However, before I can make the vid, I think we should fix/ address some of these issues first, clean things up, and then make the video (that way it'll be more organized and have structure). Just letting you know XD

Also, if you need any help with anything, I'd be more than happy to help :)

So yeah, to sum up the needs of the bar: minimize spam, set some ground rules (?), organize threads, delete threads that have not been used, advertise and spread the word. And I think that's it haha.

I'm happy that you're an active mod to keep us informed :) Thanks love!

-Agent

7/27/2010 #21
Charactarantula

The Review Game does not hate us, not in the least bit.

I was citing the flame war about a year and a half back.

And our constant worries about what they are doing are rather unnecessary.

Who the f*** is worrying?

7/27/2010 #22
C. Tattiana H-H

Besides filling the orders at the Bar, they go out into the wide world and just....review.

I think this is a really neat idea, and I'm glad you explained it in a bit more depth. I would volunteer my services if I wasn't already swamped with owed reviews. XD

It's definitely something I'd be interested in, though; once I'm all caught up and have had time to catch my breath. Question though, when bartenders review, do they include something in their review to let the writer know where the review kindness is coming from? Something similar to, "This review is on behalf of the Roadhouse's Bartender program"? Just curious. If there isn't a signature tagline, I think it might be a good idea if there was one; just to help promote RH even more.

It appears that most people don't want it to be mandatory for reviews to be returned. That's all right. We could look at this as a strength; something that sets RH apart from some of the other review forums out there.

It hasn't been said yet, but I think it's important to acknowledge: Shay, you are one classy mod, I must say. I have a lot of respect for a mod who's willing to hear what the patrons say and adjust the rules/practices/et cetera accordingly. I think this discussion thread was an excellent idea, and I'm glad everyone's been weighing in. I think you've behaved fairly in opening this thread; it's nice to know that you're open to new ideas and are willing to hear people out and do what's best for the forum as a whole. Not only has this thread addressed issues, ideas and suggestions, but I think there's also a friendlier, tighter vibe among the patrons now. My hat's off to you, Shay.

Liana

7/28/2010 #23
Mi.Ishi

Adonnen: Yeah, your name is pretty ambiguous. I love how Avid thought I was "Mr. Ishi," and not "Mi.Ishi" too. XD

Agent: Hahaha, I totally don't expect it to be done this instant anyway, Agent my love. But you're right; we'll figure this stuff out first and go from there. I think though that it'd be cool if some of the regulars who are okay with doing it make mini-vlogs about the RH to put in as clips. Just a thought. :)

Lianoid: I would love to have you as a reviewer!!!!! That'd be so awesome, if you're willing to volunteer your services once you're less swamped.

I don't know that a lot of the Bartenders are doing a lot of the outside reviewing anyway right now, but I should hope they mention the RH in some shape or form.

And thank you, muffin. I really don't want to estrange anyone, so I thought this was the best plan of action to make sure that the regulars were all on the same page.

I still want to encourage you guys to talk about things: new thread ideas, other ways to get people to the forum (and to the OT threads), etc. This thread will be around for another five days, remember.

AND I want to see if this might be a good idea: on the Rules thread I could make links to the rules for the other threads. So I can lay out the ground work for a bunch of stuff, and then have links to sorta span out from there?

DOUBLE AND does anyone have any threads that they for-sure want to make sure is still around????

7/28/2010 . Edited 7/28/2010 #24
AvidWriter-92

Whoops! Sorry, Shay. I knew that you were a girl, so don't worry. xP

I like the idea about having you link in Rules to other threads in the Rules thread. :P I think that it would save a lot of time for you, since you're the one that has to sit and type everything out. :P Just make sure that the Rules you link to are concise, and not confusing. But you probably already know that... :3

hmm. I would say scrap anything that's over a year since somebody's posted, like other people have mentioned. :P Otherwise, I would like it if you kept the threads that people visit a lot. :P

Maybe you could revive the Beer Run? It sounds like something that would be fun to do, after we've recruited a lot more Bartenders. :P Otherwise, Adonnen would just be doing it by herself... xP

I am also interested in being a Bartender, after I'm done repaying reviews and such. :P I'll PM you when I'm ready to become one. :)

I can't really think of any new thread ideas, besides one especially for Review Buddies, since you don't like it when we do that on the Bar... :P

That's all for now. If I think of something new, then I'll edit this post. :)

Thanks again, Shay. :D

~Avid. :)

7/28/2010 #25
xenolith

Hi Roadhouse.

I will also start scrapping the old games threads, and I can begin to edit The Lounge into something a little different than what it is so that it's a place for newbies to go and get used to RH, and the Poolhouse stays the same.I like this idea. I was always too intimidated to post in the Poolhouse because all the regulars seemed really close, I felt as if I was an intruder.

Otherwise, I'm excited about the RH cleanup. I really do like this forum :)

7/28/2010 #26
S. M. Saves

I'm repeating myself but since it was asked, keep the locked topics - the ones that've maxed out at 4999 posts. Those are kind of like the history of the RH and show where we've all come from.

Oh and about the "clear the ones that haven't been posted on in a year". Now that I look, none of the slow-to-fill topics fall under that definition. The oldest post for an unlock thread is Nov 2009. My bad, I was looking at the date the locked topics were maxed. . It happens when your brain is fried from online classes.

You could consolidate some of the threads. I.e. combine "The Hype Report" and "Talk about your stories". When you get down to it, they both talk about stories. Another i.e, combine "High Five" and "Darkest Corner of Stalking" (both follow the theme of asking question(s) to the poster below). Just an idea. I'm not sure if anyone wants those topics to stick around. Since I usually don't post in any of the unlocked threads outside the bar, I'll leave it to the others to decide what to do with them.

7/29/2010 #27
C. Tattiana H-H

You could consolidate some of the threads. I.e. combine "The Hype Report" and "Talk about your stories". When you get down to it, they both talk about stories.

I really don't like this idea. I'm not sure about the other ones you mentioned because I haven't frequented them, but The Hype Report is supposed to be about other people's stories. It's supposed to shed some light on works that we feel other people should check out. In my list, quite a few of them are under-appreciated stories that I'd love to see more people hitting up with the review love. I feel that The Bar is sufficient enough promotion for a writer's story if the person includes a summary.

The Talk About Your Stories thread is where writers can further promote their stories by posting a summary. In fact, I'm not a huge fan of this thread, actually. I'm not suggesting we pull the plug on it or anything, I just don't see the point in it; if people include summaries in their posts over at The Bar (which, as far as I can tell, gets more traffic), there's no need to post the same summary in a different thread.

I suggest we leave The Hype Report as is. The only suggestion I would make for this thread would be to have no OT discussions in it. I prefer to see the thread as a giant list of things I need to check out. If people want to include an OT comment at the end of their post, I'm all right with that. So far, the thread seems pretty organized. Everyone's been bolding or hyperlinking the stories that they're suggesting; there are only a handful of OT comments, so that's not a big issue as of yet.

Personally, I like the format that quite a few of the posters have adopted. I like to not only see the title, but the author's name and small personally written summary or praise. Obviously I don't think it should be mandatory to follow this format, I find I'm just more inclined to read stories where the poster has put some effort into explaining why I should read that piece.

Oops, went a little off on that one. Sorry. :D

Edit: I just noticed that some of the posts don't include the author's name. I really think people should include that piece of information. The FP search engine isn't the most reliable, so including the author's name would make it easier to track down the piece. Perhaps even hyperlinking might just be the best bet. That way, if the title of the story changes people can still find it. (I'm talking too much again. I realize this topic isn't a major issue; I just wanted to throw those thoughts out there).

7/29/2010 . Edited 7/29/2010 #28
Creeping Collarbones

I definitelyagree with the scrapping of the threads. Maybe try to start up a few of the games? Games are always a fun way to get to know people. I, was really confused with what off topic threads to use and never use any of them, but I'd like to start using them.

I would also be interested in being a bartender. It seems like a good idea. xD

7/29/2010 #29
WutNow

As to things we can add to the forum...I'm totally in favor of the Review Buddies Thread. But I also want to add a personal interest of mine... and I know this is a stretch but I'm just throwing it out there... can we have a Book Cover Request Thread? I have one in my forum "The Zero Hour" (which is dead except for AvidWriter-92, who requests book covers for her stories XD). I've done some in the past and I enjoy helping other people make covers for their stories. Here are a few book covers that I have done:

http://a.imageshack.us/img38/8109/heart2heartbookcover.jpg -- "Heart to Heart" by Agent.Frappuccino... me haha

http://a.imageshack.us/img23/7013/jackslondond.jpg --"Jack's London" by Katerzzz

http://a.imageshack.us/img341/3688/persephone.jpg -- "Persephone's Flight" by AvidWriter-92

http://a.imageshack.us/img230/2639/avid02.jpg -- "Haikus and Other Short Stanza Poetry" by AvidWriter-92

So yeah, I've done a few ^^. Plus, I think it will keep the people active in the forum if they can share their book covers with each other :). I'm usually the one making book covers, but it would be fantastic if we had a few groups of people to join in. If you dislike the book cover request thread, maybe a book cover exchange? One person does a book cover for another person's story and in return, they do theirs as well? I don't know, something like that? Yea, just throwing it out there :) Please tell me what you think about it.

-Agent

7/29/2010 #30
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