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Shay Guy

This is something that's gotten me thinking. Part of the answers require information on the metaphysics and setting that clearly aren't ready to be released yet, but even given what we know, what are the long-term ramifications for a human society where magic is known to exist, and has at least one individual who can use it with Eriko's present and future proficiency? And once the secret's out, there are sure to be more - some people are DEFINITELY gonna be crazy enough to attempt to induce NDEs to gain that kind of power, some people who have legitimate accidents are sure to remember to stay and tinker around instead of going to the light, and eventually, a safe method of obtaining the powers might be developed.

Consider even common magic. Depending on how well it scales with quantity, procuring fresh water for places that lack it could suddenly become a lot easier, even considering how a magician can't be everywhere at once. Gold? Rhodium? Diamond? Carbon nanotubes? Helium-3? ANTIMATTER? (Now there's a chilling thought.)

Noble magic...hoo boy. There's a very strong "information ex nihilo" component here, which has SERIOUS consequences for an information-based society. Eriko can make a computer, right? That was one of the first examples she gave back in chapter one. Can she shatter Moore's Law? The face-modification stuff she did for her Soul-form would seem to make plastic surgery almost as simple as getting a haircut. How hard would it honestly be to construct a working reusable SSTO launch vehicle, with an engineer or two to help on design?

Portals open up rapid transport possibilities. I'm gonna quote Zubrin's examples for rocketplane package delivery applications in "Entering Space" here: electronic devices, biological reagents, human organs, precious stones (which can be magically produced easily enough anyway, I'd presume, given their simplicity), microcircuits, just-in-time parts needed at a factory, and important business documents. And Zubrin's talking $400/kg right there, for a delivery method MUCH slower than portals.

I don't really know much about macroeconomics, so someone else might need to help me out. The important thing here is probably the concept of what I believe is called a "limiting factor." This, as you may know, can be something like space, or oil, or (in the case of Arrakis) water. What are the chief limiting resources in today's society/economy, and what does it become in a magical society? Certainly, there's the number of magic-users, and the degree to which one can use magic at any one time - what else is there? In addition, there's unshown-so-far uses for magic, I'm sure, and applications for the uses we've seen so far that I'm not creative enough to think up. Plus lots of destructive applications, like the antimatter I mentioned above...

6/30/2008 . Edited 6/30/2008 #1
sun tzu OM

Shay Guy...Have I ever mentioned how much I love having you as a reader?

And once the secret's out, there are sure to be more - some people are DEFINITELY gonna be crazy enough to attempt to induce NDEs to gain that kind of power, some people who have legitimate accidents are sure to remember to stay and tinker around instead of going to the light, and eventually, a safe method of obtaining the powers might be developed.

True. Disturbingly enough, fanatical groups and individuals would probably be more willing to try this stuff. Imagine religious fanatics with an elite squad of magicians...

Consider even common magic. Depending on how well it scales with quantity, procuring fresh water for places that lack it could suddenly become a lot easier, even considering how a magician can't be everywhere at once.

Hm...At her current level, Eriko could probably create a few tons of water with one spell. There's no physical effort involved, and she doesn't run out of energy, but she'd still need to concentrate...So, let's say a few kilotons of water a day without getting too tired. Maybe not enough to single-handedly solve the world's droughts, but still enough to make a notable difference. With several magicians working together, the problem could potentially be solved.

Gold? Rhodium? Diamond? Carbon nanotubes? Helium-3? ANTIMATTER? (Now there's a chilling thought.)

Indeed. Please note, though, that several of these require actual scientific knowledge of what you're trying to create. Someone who had gained magic in a medieval society wouldn't be able to create antimatter, simply because he'd have no clue what it was.

Noble magic...hoo boy. There's a very strong "information ex nihilo" component here, which has SERIOUS consequences for an information-based society.

Thing is, the information isn't truly ex nihilo. But we're not quite there yet...

Eriko can make a computer, right? That was one of the first examples she gave back in chapter one. Can she shatter Moore's Law? The face-modification stuff she did for her Soul-form would seem to make plastic surgery almost as simple as getting a haircut. How hard would it honestly be to construct a working reusable SSTO launch vehicle, with an engineer or two to help on design?

She couldn't do that, actually - she doesn't have access to any SSTO launch vehicle, or access to the information involved in its design.

She could duplicate the space shutle if she had access to it, though.

Portals open up rapid transport possibilities. I'm gonna quote Zubrin's examples for rocketplane package delivery applications in "Entering Space" here: electronic devices, biological reagents, human organs, precious stones (which can be magically produced easily enough anyway, I'd presume, given their simplicity), microcircuits, just-in-time parts needed at a factory, and important business documents. And Zubrin's talking $400/kg right there, for a delivery method MUCH slower than portals.

Portals could be used as a shortcut to orbit, yes, but there are two problems:

First, keep in mind that she needs to maintain focus to keep a portal operational. They don't remain around like the matter she creates.

Second...A portal might take you to orbit, but it won't give you the velocity needed to stay there.

6/30/2008 #2
Shay Guy

True. Disturbingly enough, fanatical groups and individuals would probably be more willing to try this stuff. Imagine religious fanatics with an elite squad of magicians...

Oh, lovely image. -_- So barring the discovery of a less insanely dangerous means of developing magical skills (I'd look into altered states of consciousness), the information's gonna have to be guarded very carefully, at least in the beginning. Before it's released to the general public, there's gonna have to be a fair number of magicians in place to deal with renegades, or there's gonna be total chaos. (I'm taking ideas from speculations on nanotechnology here. Among others, Ray Kurzweil has mentioned the idea of a planetwide nanotech "immune system" to deal with gray goo and the like.)

The prerequisites for membership...you'd need somebody who was willing to put their life on the line for a chance at making a better difference in the world. Finding people like that might require the resources of a national government, which has problems of its own. Soldiers in particular might seem useful, except for loyalty issues. You'd want an international team, so maybe the UN Security Council?

This is also another reason why Eriko needs to protect her identity. The fact that she spent three months in a coma shortly prior to the first appearance of Soul is publicly available knowledge. If word gets out that she IS Soul...well, it doesn't exactly take plintconarhythmic physics to connect the dots.

Indeed. Please note, though, that several of these require actual scientific knowledge of what you're trying to create. Someone who had gained magic in a medieval society wouldn't be able to create antimatter, simply because he'd have no clue what it was.

In modern society, though, it's all publicly available knowledge. (Do we have a specific time for the setting? It's after the release of Nanoha, that's as specific as I can tell, and late in whichever school year it is.) And antihydrogen is structurally very simple. If you can generate a temporary vacuum, produce one gram of antimatter in the middle, then let it fall into the atmosphere...well, image a suicide bomber magician porting into Tel Aviv or Chicago. Boom. Inducing an NDE in a volunteer, even if three others die, is still way cheaper and faster than an actual nuclear program. And even a sizable magical peacekeeping force may not be able to prevent something like that.

Thing is, the information isn't truly ex nihilo. But we're not quite there yet...

Then the question becomes whether the information source is limited to humanity, or if it stems directly from "He Who Is." Even just the former has serious implications for society, and is worth a few experiments in itself.

She couldn't do that, actually - she doesn't have access to any SSTO launch vehicle, or access to the information involved in its design.

She could duplicate the space shutle if she had access to it, though.

So noble magic can "read" as well as "write?" That is, it can duplicate from a template? More profound implications for society. Physical products become susceptible to the same ease of copying as information, with not even the hope of DRM. Even allowing for a limited number of magicians. If a magical merchant ever got tired of selling rhodium, and had already taken a weekend to demolish the De Beers monopoly, he could buy a plasma screen TV, go on eBay, and sell a steady stream of "good as new" TVs. Noble magic is harder than common, and I gather than it scales with complexity, but it's still a pretty decent rate. And then there's the question of generalizing patterns from multiple templates. Could she, say, take three computer processors - a 486, a Pentium 4, and a Core 2, for instance - and produce another x86 superior to the others?

And I still don't see why she couldn't build an SSTO. All she'd need would be an engineer or three to draw up a blueprint that she can understand, and who have been briefed on the extent of her powers.

Portals could be used as a shortcut to orbit, yes, but there are two problems:

First, keep in mind that she needs to maintain focus to keep a portal operational. They don't remain around like the matter she creates.

Second...A portal might take you to orbit, but it won't give you the velocity needed to stay there.

Right, right, except that all the applications Zubrin discusses are surface-to-surface. The rocketplanes he's discussing don't even reach orbital velocity; satellite launch requires an expendable second stage. And sattelite launch isn't even what I'm talking about.

Ooh! Something else I've just realized - access to magic can be nullified. And we know this because you've shown Ryan, or at least his organization, doing it. You haven't indicated how this can be done, but we still know it's possible.

6/30/2008 #3
sun tzu OM

So noble magic can "read" as well as "write?" That is, it can duplicate from a template?

You might say that magic essentially treats the physical world like information.

And then there's the question of generalizing patterns from multiple templates. Could she, say, take three computer processors - a 486, a Pentium 4, and a Core 2, for instance - and produce another x86 superior to the others?

Nah. The information just isn't there. Noble magic has enough pattern recognition to "fill in the blanks", but not enough to invent (nor can it recreate information that's been well and truly lost, for that matter).

And I still don't see why she couldn't build an SSTO. All she'd need would be an engineer or three to draw up a blueprint that she can understand, and who have been briefed on the extent of her powers.

If she has the blueprints, sure, it's doable. But since true single-stage-orbiter has yet to be invented, well...

7/1/2008 #4
Shay Guy

You might say that magic essentially treats the physical world like information.

Certainly, I might say that, but would I be CORRECT to say that? :P

Hmm...she wants something she doesn't know how to make, she finds some way of ensuring she'll be alone with it for a minute or two (porting into a store after hours, mayhaps?), makes a copy, then drops it in a portal to Nexus. If she wants more than one, all she has to do is take that copy at her leisure and replicate IT until she has enough.

Binary data, at least in large quantities, seems like it wouldn't be that well-suited to magical replication. But hey, that's what computers are for. And a blank DVD for storage shouldn't be too hard.

If she has the blueprints, sure, it's doable. But since true single-stage-orbiter has yet to be invented, well...

Okay, scenario time. You gather together half a dozen rocket scientists and such, and ask them to design a single-stage orbiter with a twenty-ton payload capacity. In addition, you tell them that it can be made out of ABSOLUTELY ANY substances with known composition (even something as exotic as diamond-enclosed vacuum), that the same goes for fuel, and that ABSOLUTELY ANY form can be manufactured, as long as the blueprints are present and comprehensible. And if their design works, they each get a safe full of gold, with 10% or whatever up front. Rocketry may not be EXACTLY my area of expertise, but I fail to see what'd stop them if you remove the vast majority of their economic constraints.

All this aside, the big question, I think, is what happens when there are large numbers of mages - individuals who can go anywhere on Earth and are both fountains of wealth and living weapons of mass destruction - running around. It would vary depending on the order of magnitude, with ten, a thousand, and a hundred thousand having very different implications, but...well, precious metals and stones would be severely devalued over time. Pharmaceuticals, too...basically anything with a relatively simple chemical structure that requires a lot of money to produce or obtain. Companies that produce physical products requiring large amounts of R&D investment would be hit hard, since any mage could "pirate" an Aeron chair or whatever perfectly. Portals would render security a major issue, leading to much research into "portal-proofing" buildings. Man, we really DO need a professional economist in here.

And, of course, everything known so far about the applications of magic is the product of a few months of study by a single thirteen-year-old girl, albeit an extremely intelligent one, in addition to a few weeks of direct instruction by a (vastly) more experienced user, who has been focusing on solo combat. A look at fairy society may be instructive, being "an entire race of natural magic-users," as Ryan said.

7/1/2008 #5
sun tzu OM

Okay, scenario time. You gather together half a dozen rocket scientists and such, and ask them to design a single-stage orbiter with a twenty-ton payload capacity. In addition, you tell them that it can be made out of ABSOLUTELY ANY substances with known composition (even something as exotic as diamond-enclosed vacuum), that the same goes for fuel, and that ABSOLUTELY ANY form can be manufactured, as long as the blueprints are present and comprehensible. And if their design works, they each get a safe full of gold, with 10% or whatever up front. Rocketry may not be EXACTLY my area of expertise, but I fail to see what'd stop them if you remove the vast majority of their economic constraints.

Well, keep in mind that the space agencies of the world haven't succeeded yet, even with hundreds of millions of dollars invested in such projects - best they've come up with is the Space Shuttle.

To get into space, you really need to maximize the propulsion power/mass ratio - and that's what the experts have been doing for over half a century. Multiple stage rockets improve the ration by losing large parts of their on the way up. For single-stage launcher to work, you'd need a different advantage (maybe nanotechnology will produce lighter materials in the future, but for now...)

A look at fairy society may be instructive, being "an entire race of natural magic-users," as Ryan said.

There are more differences between fairies and humans than just magic, but we're not quite there yet.

7/2/2008 #6
Shay Guy

Well, the SSTO can wait until we've got a rocketry expert reading this.

Some more insight on the "fountain of wealth" thing. You said that currently, Eriko can probably make about a ton of water with one spell. Assume for the moment that that applies to precious metals as well, mass for mass. Currently, gold goes for about $30/gram, platinum almost twice that, rhodium something like ten times gold. Sticking with gold for a moment, a metric ton is a million grams, so one spell used to make a ton of gold earns the merchant-mage $30 million. (Irrelevant fact: this is a cube 37.3 cm or 14.677 inches on each side. 19.3 g/cc is pretty damn dense.) Cast that spell three dozen times a day - which shouldn't be too hard - or just four rhodium spells, or some other equivalent, and in the course of one day, the mage has earned a billion dollars.

Never in all of history has there been a human capable of making the equivalent of one billion modern US dollars in a single day.

Precious metals would drop in price, certainly, and when the public realizes it, it would accelerate. But there's still a fair amount of value, and the $1B/day rate shouldn't be too hard to sustain, especially after expanding into more complex substances - carbon nanotubes, areogel...what does somebody DO with all that money? Philanthropy? Investment? Into what? What's a stable investment in a magic-aware world? And why even bother with the trouble of finding a good investment when you can make tens of millions of dollars in a minute without lifting a finger? What are the most important things that a mage can't provide for himself, or wouldn't want to?

And all this isn't getting into the question of what happens if the feared scenario of militants and fanatics gaining magic occurs. War, most likely. It's been made clear enough that between portals, shields, and matter generation and the ability to impart it with energy, a mage can only be defeated in combat by another mage. It doesn't matter how many soldiers you throw out there, you can't ever corner a warrior-mage without magic of your own unless you ambush him and knock him out (which is still only good until he wakes up - I'm counting whatever Ryan's using to cut off Eriko's magic as being magic itself), he's bulletproof, and he can suck your tanks into space or slice through them like butter, whatever his preference. And that's not getting into the antimatter bomb: port a mile or two above a city, create a big hunk o' steel, make a vacuum in its middle, drop alongside it in freefall, put a kilogram of antimatter in the middle of that hole, then port out. When it lands and comes out of zero-g freefall, the antimatter hits the wall and blows, turning the steel into plasma. City destroyed, mage ready for another round.

So by the time the war ends, what's the new order? What kind of arrangement do the powers come to? Who's in charge, and how much do the remains of humanity rely on the mages to help them rebuild?

7/12/2008 #7
sun tzu OM

Some more insight on the "fountain of wealth" thing. You said that currently, Eriko can probably make about a ton of water with one spell. Assume for the moment that that applies to precious metals as well, mass for mass. Currently, gold goes for about $30/gram, platinum almost twice that, rhodium something like ten times gold. Sticking with gold for a moment, a metric ton is a million grams, so one spell used to make a ton of gold earns the merchant-mage $30 million. (Irrelevant fact: this is a cube 37.3 cm or 14.677 inches on each side. 19.3 g/cc is pretty damn dense.) Cast that spell three dozen times a day - which shouldn't be too hard - or just four rhodium spells, or some other equivalent, and in the course of one day, the mage has earned a billion dollars.

Never in all of history has there been a human capable of making the equivalent of one billion modern US dollars in a single day.

Precious metals would drop in price, certainly, and when the public realizes it, it would accelerate. But there's still a fair amount of value, and the $1B/day rate shouldn't be too hard to sustain, especially after expanding into more complex substances - carbon nanotubes, areogel...what does somebody DO with all that money? Philanthropy? Investment? Into what? What's a stable investment in a magic-aware world? And why even bother with the trouble of finding a good investment when you can make tens of millions of dollars in a minute without lifting a finger? What are the most important things that a mage can't provide for himself, or wouldn't want to?

To put it in other words: In a magic-capable economy, no material is truly rare.

Mind you, some materials are used in such vast amounts (wood? Oil? Iron?) that, unless mages were very common, it might not be practical to rely on magic to obtain them. I don't have the solid numbers on that, but I suspect that barring thousands of mages getting careers as "wood makers", the logging industry is safe. Same for agriculture in general - wizards will make a difference, but not make it outright unnecessary.

Then there's manufacturing. Sure, you can use noble magic to copy objects...but, unless you're cosmically-powerful like Aurora, the amount of objects you can create is going to be laughable in the industrial age, so factories are still valuable (now, using magic to replicate the factory...).

And then, of course, there's information. Magic cannot replace scientists, artists and inventors...

7/13/2008 #8
sun tzu OM

And all this isn't getting into the question of what happens if the feared scenario of militants and fanatics gaining magic occurs. War, most likely. It's been made clear enough that between portals, shields, and matter generation and the ability to impart it with energy, a mage can only be defeated in combat by another mage. It doesn't matter how many soldiers you throw out there, you can't ever corner a warrior-mage without magic of your own unless you ambush him and knock him out (which is still only good until he wakes up - I'm counting whatever Ryan's using to cut off Eriko's magic as being magic itself), he's bulletproof, and he can suck your tanks into space or slice through them like butter, whatever his preference.

Actually...I disagree with your analysis here. A mage is certainly a formidable force, but not an invincible one.

Remember, the things that hurt Downfall and Eriko during their fight weren't directly magical. Sure, magic was used to make the copper wire appear...but the electricity was completely mundane, and originated from a regular power plant. Sure, Downfall's shields blocked the policeman's bullets...But a giant anvil falling on him did hurt him. A real military force might have succeeded where a lone policeman failed. It's one thing being bulletproof; it's another thing being cannon shell-proof. And that's without getting into unconventional weaponry.

Granted, if the mage plays it smart, he can be a true one-man-army. But he will need to play it smart - non-mages aren't completely helpless, either.

7/13/2008 #9
Shay Guy

Hm. Good points there. So yeah, it's possible, though difficult, to beat at least a low-level warrior mage without magic. Tanks, sure, but not magic. Keeping him from escaping is another matter entirely, as is defending against his own assault. Actually, the best way to kill a mage would probably be the good ol' element of surprise - figure out where he's gonna be at a certain time without him knowing you know, and lay a trap - probably explosives - that he won't realize is there until it's too late to port out. Or get him to trust someone that'll stab him in the back, again, making sure he doesn't realize the need to port out until he's dead or as good as. Come to think of it, Light might have won if he hadn't been so intent on killing L and making him pay for his offenses against "the god of the new world."

Substances required in mass quantities, also a good point. Here it's probably a better idea for the mage to focus on using noble magic to make devices that aid in gathering those substances, or else trying to make them obsolete. Here's a question: what's the new role of oil? Watchmen had everyone driving electric cars because Dr. Manhattan could produce the necessary lithium so easily. Or how about electrical power? Here's a scenario: a mage, worth billions of dollars from sales of precious metals (which presumably haven't depreciated to industrial-metal levels yet), decides that the government's been taking too long to make an economical fusion reactor, and announces his intention to start his own private venture, with better funding and a promise to personally assist in both reactor prototyping/construction and fuel supply (be it D-T, D-He3, or whatever the scientists decide is best). And don't forget that for complex objects and substances - say, any food more complex than basic salt or sugar - it may be more economical just to trade. Give the farmer his inorganic fertilizer and the factories their steel, and they give their usual output in return. (Side note: if the government collapses, what takes the role of money? Do precious metals and stones depreciate enough to lose their effectiveness as a medium of exchange? Gold, even semi-abundant, still has the advantages listed on Wikipedia's "commodity money" article.)

It's also not going to just be the fanatics who'll want to take the risk. Anybody who's been considering suicide, or feeling like their life is worthless, now has a chance to attain more power than they would've believed possible. Even if the chance is only one in four, lots of people will find the gamble worthwhile. The number of mages is only going to increase, faster as studies on successful strategies for NDE-induction come out and maybe another, safer method is discovered.

And yes, any profession based on producing information is going to be as safe as it is in real life now, especially since users of noble magic are going to need blueprints. Widespread distribution of said information, in the form of mass media...again, about as safe as in real life now. :P

7/13/2008 #10
sun tzu OM

Hm. Good points there. So yeah, it's possible, though difficult, to beat at least a low-level warrior mage without magic. Tanks, sure, but not magic. Keeping him from escaping is another matter entirely, as is defending against his own assault. Actually, the best way to kill a mage would probably be the good ol' element of surprise - figure out where he's gonna be at a certain time without him knowing you know, and lay a trap - probably explosives - that he won't realize is there until it's too late to port out. Or get him to trust someone that'll stab him in the back, again, making sure he doesn't realize the need to port out until he's dead or as good as.

Do note that there's the question of whether the mage is maintaining shields at all time, or just in combat - and there's more to shielding than just the kinetic energy trick Aurora's taught Soul so far (as we'll see in chapter 4. Sorry about the delay, incidentally - it's already written, but I'm waiting for word from my proofreaders).

Here's a question: what's the new role of oil?

Well, even if you got to the point where you didn't need it for energy, it would still be needed for petrochemistry...the amount of plastics used in the world is huge, after all.

Or how about electrical power? Here's a scenario: a mage, worth billions of dollars from sales of precious metals (which presumably haven't depreciated to industrial-metal levels yet), decides that the government's been taking too long to make an economical fusion reactor, and announces his intention to start his own private venture, with better funding and a promise to personally assist in both reactor prototyping/construction and fuel supply (be it D-T, D-He3, or whatever the scientists decide is best).

Well, he'll still have the problem of designing a functional fusion reactor...given that it involves temperatures of 20 000 000 Kelvins, it's going to be tricky.

Then again, if you have mages working in shifts, you could make a "shield" to isolate the high-energy matter...Yeah, fusion might be doable in this scenario. But it'll take some dedication to keep the plant going.

7/13/2008 #11
CattyNebulart

Indeed. Please note, though, that several of these require actual scientific knowledge of what you're trying to create. Someone who had gained magic in a medieval society wouldn't be able to create antimatter, simply because he'd have no clue what it was.

How does this work with medival peasants then? would they be able to create the 'element' fire, or the 'element' water?

Or is basic magic able to create any homogenous substance?

Second...A portal might take you to orbit, but it won't give you the velocity needed to stay there.

Easy enough to fix, you create the portal at one end and have a maglev train or whatever send stuff through it, probably with a secondary booster to get it in the right spot. Sure it would take a few years to build, after people know about magic but it would reduce launch costs by at least a factor of 10 if not more. also if a mage could fill the tanks of a spaceship while onboard many things get a lot simpler.

As to SSTO vehicles mages would be godsend for designing them even if they just made parts. Spaceships consist of many high precision custommade parts, ussualy out of expensive materials too. when the cost of a spacship drops to just desing and possibly a litte assembly you can afford to launch a new prototype every week or two to test the desing which would make things much easier (and therefore much much cheaper). Keep in mind there are about 2000 people employed full time just for the assembly of the single use external fuel tank, and there aren't that many shuttle missions. If a mage could just duplicate the fuel tank and nothing else we are already cutting millions of each launch. A good ballpark figure for the cost of a shuttle launch is 60 million US $, and the lowest cost I could find for an empty fuel tank was 5 million, so it's a good chunck of savings.

Hmm, if there is a silence enchantment it would make rocketry so much easier, since the main problems in rocketry have to do with acoustics.

I'm just left wondering if Soul could make Strangelets.

11/10/2008 #12
sun tzu OM

How does this work with medival peasants then? would they be able to create the 'element' fire, or the 'element' water?

They could create water...They're surrounded by it, so the magic can easily zero in on the appropriate matter type.

Fire, though...that'd be more of an issue. A first attempt would probably just result in scorching heat. If they tried to create something flameable together with the heat with which to ignite it, though...

I'm just left wondering if Soul could make Strangelets.

Hm. Well, alarmist LHC paranoia put aside, it's not even certain if they can exist...but if they can, then someone as science-savvy as Eriko would be able to create them, yes.

11/10/2008 #13
CattyNebulart

Hm. Well, alarmist LHC paranoia put aside, it's not even certain if they can exist...but if they can, then someone as science-savvy as Eriko would be able to create them, yes.

Well yes, but think of all the scientific opertunities that that capability represents. Since it presumably would hold for everything, including things not yet observed like the Higgs Boson. A related question is if she could make things that can exist accoring to current theory but that don't exist for whatever reason, such as things with negative mass. It also gives me some ideas for combat.

To bring this back on topic this also allows the comercial explotation of hard to make elementary particles, no clue what those applications would be but I am sure they exist.

11/10/2008 #14
Shay Guy

This might be a good place to note that I raised an eyebrow at Eriko's proposed "island of stability" experiment. "I don't want to create something that could hurt us, either because it's toxic or radioactive." Little problem there, jochan -- even the stuff IN the island is still likely to be highly radioactive. Just not split-second-half-life radioactive. Even unbihexium-310 could degrade, easily.

And then there's the point on theoretical models, which reminded me strongly of a plot point from Xenocide, one of the sequels to Ender's Game.

11/10/2008 . Edited 11/10/2008 #15
sun tzu OM

This might be a good place to note that I raised an eyebrow at Eriko's proposed "island of stability" experiment. "I don't want to create something that could hurt us, either because it's toxic or radioactive." Little problem there, jochan -- even the stuff IN the island is still likely to be highly radioactive. Just not split-second-half-life radioactive. Even unbihexium-310 could degrade, easily.

Yeah, the fact that she doesn't know the properties of those elements is the reason Eriko is hesitant to create them. She doesn't want to potentially endanger herself and Junko (well, except by, you know, fighting demons and monsters and multiversal murderers and the like.)

11/10/2008 #16
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