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Arethusa Cyberia

RFID chip implants and National Health ID bill

The House passed both the Senate Health Care bill and the House Reconciliation Act H.R. 4872 on March 21, 2010. The Senate bill goes to the President for signing and the Reconciliation bill, HR4872, goes to the Senate for approval.

There are two items with dire consequences included in the Reconciliation bill. The first is mandatory RFID chip implants. The gist of the wording in the bill provides setting up a registry for collecting patient data, such as medical records, insurance claims, pharmacy data, etc. The wording in the bill leaves open any additional data collection as required. The timetable for implementation is within 3 years. The wording is very vague, but the only way the registry can be established with the data they plan on collecting is with everyone having the chip.

The second is establishing a National Health ID/Debit card with Smart chip/RFID technology, linked to Bank accounts for the purpose of ID verification as well as patient info, along with instant debit from Bank account to pay for co-pays, etc. The wording leaves open the option to use this concurrently with RFID chip implant. The timetable for implementation is within 2 years.

Here is H.R 4872:

The RFID section is located on page 1013. In Table of Contents it is Subdivision C, Title V, Subtitle C- National medical device registry. You're looking for Class II implantable device. That's a RFID chip.

Here is FDA info on Class II:

The National Health ID/Debit section is on page 57. In Table of Contents it is Subdivision A. Title I, Subtitle G- Early Investments. Further it is Sec 163, Administrative Simplification.

4/6/2010 . Edited 4/6/2010 #1


ok, this is all too "2012" and "Book of Revelations" for me.

4/6/2010 #2
Arethusa Cyberia

That's what I thought! Mark of the Beast!


I was an advocate of chips for children (so they can't be kidnapped) but now I'm not so sure. Humans tend to muck things up too badly for any such thing to work the way it should in a perfect world. I can see this going very wrong, because basically, we are a corrupted species.

4/6/2010 #3

It's a good idea (RFID chips for ID) but... they'll fuck it up.

They started putting RFID chips into passports, with encrypted data in them. The encryption was broken before the system was even fully implemented, and the chips can be read by anyone you walk by in the airport with off-the-shelf equipment.

You wireless people - using WEP encryption, you can google for real-time decrypters for that. What you want is WPA encryption - to break that will cost you $12 to a website that specializes in that very thing.

All encryption can be broken - if not today, then in a few months.

Oh, and my tinfoil-hat tip 'o' the day: NEVER trust the government to protect your privacy. It is simply not in their best interest.

4/6/2010 #4
Arethusa Cyberia

No, I don't trust the government, and I used to think RFID chips for ID or "lost person" purposes was a good idea, but what's bugging me is that word "mandatory."

The United States of America, "land of the free," is thinking about putting into law that all citizens must have a computer chip embedded under their skin. If you slowly pen pigs into a closed fence area, they get comfortable with their loss of freedom. It's the whole "mandatory" aspect that scares me. This is not wearing a bicycle helmet or seatbelt, but a surgically implanted device designed to monitor your every move, manage your bank account, register you for now-mandatory medical insurance.

"Mandatory" in this sense means "you will be fined" if you fail to comply, which translates to "if you can't pay the fine, you go to jail." Forget privacy; that's guaranteed compromised. I'm concerned about freedom. Using this specific technology to track criminals or pedophiles (which they have already been considering) or children is one thing. The criminals gave up their right to freedom when they committed their crimes, or by being a danger to society, and the children live in a dangerous world and must be protected, not only from criminals but from inattentive parents and caregivers.

I don't want the American government telling me that I must have this chip implanted or I will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I'll move to Canada. This is scary business, keeping in mind (non-believers, bear with me, I apologize) according to the Bible:

Revelation 13:16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:" and 13:17 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

Freaky that the mark is "in" their hands or foreheads, not "on." It's just too damned close for comfort, and there will be many Christian Americans who will absolutely refuse to have a chip implanted, including myself, not just for fear of losing freedom, but of doing the wrong thing in the scheme of God's plan. We have an obligation to vote this down, or march against Congress, or something, because you are so very correct, Jack. They will fuck it up.

Anyone from UK or Canada want to comment? You have socialized medicine. Does your government make medical insurance mandatory, or is it voluntary?

I think I'm going to refrain from further comment, because I'm obviously upset and I don't want this thread to become unmanageable.

4/6/2010 . Edited 4/6/2010 #5

We live in the "Big Brother" society. Yep.

I'm sleeping with my teddy bear today. :(

4/6/2010 #6

lol oh god

4/6/2010 #7

The everyone thing is certainly implied, but does it explicitly say anything about a fine or it being mandatory?

4/6/2010 #8
Chasmodai Blue

This is the stuff for which people blame socialists.

I'm a socialist. I'm appalled. I'm ready to fight back.

...meaning I'm one of those people with an ungodly wireless encryption and the off-the-shelf-equipment necessary to read the RFID chips.

4/6/2010 #9

I'mma deal with this the only way I know how. -grabs shotgun and adopts a southern accent- Now does anyone know how to fire a shotgun? -stares into barrel-

4/6/2010 #10
Chasmodai Blue

You know those crazies who are prepared for the "zombie apocalypse" and have food in the basement and guns and knives in every room (including the bathroom!) and hand-to-hand combat?

That's me.

Which is to say yes, I can fire a shotgun.

4/6/2010 #11

I'm so gonna die in the Zombie Apocalypse.

4/6/2010 #12

Nah, Triizore. I've got food in the basement and plenty of teddy bears! Come hang with me! I can't fire a gun either!

4/7/2010 #13
Arethusa Cyberia

More info:

from 2007

from 2006

from Feb 2010

not finding much else :S

4/7/2010 #14

...were they not thinking? Come on, aren't politicians worried about their images? This is the beginning of the end of every futuristic novel. Do none of them read?

And no, it isn't socialism. People think it is. Like people think that 1984 was socialist. They obviously skipped over The Theory and Practice of Collective Oligarchy. Ingsoc wasn't socialism. Even though socialism was in the name. Or they might not have read the book at all. That's probably the more likely explanation, isn't it?

4/7/2010 #15

... I just looked it up on Wikipedia - it seems that no one can really define "socialism". I sort of ASSUMED that it meant "government that exists for the sake of the people", but apparently not.

"Fascism" on the other hand, seems to be pretty well defined - and it sounds like exactly what the Tea Baggers are aiming at.

Just sayin'.

As for RFID chips... look, we've all been branded with Social Security numbers from day one (or shortly thereafter). It may not be tattooed on your forehead... but try getting a job, or Driver's License, or anything else, without it. The RFID chip is no more evil than a "national ID number", which we already have in everything but name.

Before you fear Big Brother, fear the people who play to your fears - they're the danger.

There's an ancient story about a Roman town that thought it was about to be invaded by barbarians. Eventually, the barbarians left the area, never having come to the town, and the people were disappointed: it would have been better than nothing.

4/7/2010 #16

It's not the chips themselves I have a problem with, it's that no one seems to have realized that it looks bad to people at large. I mean, this is always the beginning of the end in science fiction. People are bound to protest.

4/7/2010 #17
Arethusa Cyberia

"As for RFID chips... look, we've all been branded with Social Security numbers from day one (or shortly thereafter). It may not be tattooed on your forehead... but try getting a job, or Driver's License, or anything else, without it. The RFID chip is no more evil than a "national ID number", which we already have in everything but name."

You're right, Jack. We've already received the "mark" in question, just not on our physical persons. But, if the government informed you that it was now mandatory to have your SSN tattooed into your forehead, would you comply? In a world of mandates, such things would be tattooed to your forehead or surgically implanted AT BIRTH. Choice is removed. Claire is correct; we've seen this scenario time and again in sci-fi stories, always as a cautionary tale.

I'm not trying to play to anyone's fears or cause panic or conduct a witch hunt. I'm just saying that we have an obligation to not allow the government to flash canine fangs at us while wearing wool suits, telling us it's for our own good. America is a great country, but we're also f*ed up and then some, so we need to stay informed to keep an eye on our elected officials. I won't be disappointed if heads remain screwed on well and nothing happens. I'll be relieved.

4/8/2010 . Edited 4/8/2010 #18

I haven't seen my Social Security card in a long, long time.

I wonder if it misses me?

4/8/2010 #19

You'd better find it. When applying for a job, they want to SEE the stupid bit of cardboard, for some reason. A photocopy will not do.

What I think is funny is that the SSN card says RIGHT ON IT "Not to be used for identification purposes".

4/8/2010 #20

*yawn* I was wondering when this year's bout of "Jesus is coming!" would hit. (I wonder... Why is it always in the Spring? Is fear of the apocalypse a symptom of Spring Fever? Does the increased presence of door-to-door evangelists make everyone paranoid? I shall study this, someday...)

You'll all be glad to see this:

But, for future reference, I can fire a gun. In the event of a zombie apocalypse, however, I will probably not be around to show you. I'm much better at hiding.

4/8/2010 #21
Arethusa Cyberia

If the "Jesus is coming!" campaign always hits in Spring, it most likely has something to do with Easter, not Spring Fever.

For the non-religious out there, Easter is when the death and crucifixion of Christ is remembered, not hunting for where the Bunny hid the eggs.

Thanks for the link, Serpent. I received the original post via email from my Medical Coding associates, and literally freaked. My cousin informed me that she was skeptical of chip implants being mandatory, and my brother assured me this would never fly. According to the info in your link, he was correct. It seems that someone proposed mandatory implants, and Congress shot it down. Which is good.

The only thing that still disturbs me is that a parent may "consent" to having a baby implanted. This would render chip implantation mandatory for the child, who does not have a choice. See where I'm going with this? It may not be an immediate concern, but we still need to keep our eyes open and be aware of changes because this CAN end up becoming mandatory in a roundabout way if we allow. (Remember the fenced in pigs analogy.)

This encompasses more than just a "we're in the end times" concern. This threatens our freedom and our privacy ... and our health, if you wonder whether some people may have an allergic reaction to an implant, or if anti-rejection drugs will be needed, or if the implant travels to someone's heart and causes problems (yes, that can happen.) So, there are many things to consider.

Hey, Jack, I used to do reference checking, and we didn't rely on the Social Security card to identify the applicant (that's what a driver's license or identification card is for) but to check the applicant's eligibility to work in the United States. Also, with the CDL, all names used, and the SSN, we could check credit history and criminal background. More than once, I encountered people who were fleeing from the law in another state, or had been convicted of felonies, or were using someone else's SSN. We did not use credit history to decide whether to hire the person, but in finding appropriate posts. If someone is in great debt, putting them to work at a post where they have a greater opportunity to be tempted to steal money or something is usually unwise. We can place them where there is no temptation or opportunity.

4/9/2010 . Edited 4/9/2010 #22

It might be related to Easter. I do remember my childhood church's Revelations sermons immediately following the Easter sermons as often as not. I suppose Easter does work very well as a "While we're on the subject of Jesus rising again..." lead-in.

But, then again, I was raised by Evangelicals in Colorado. Rapture Ready culture was as much a part of the first decade-and-half of my life as school was. I won't even get out of bed for the Mark of the Beast anymore. Show me the dead bodies (or the lack-thereof, because God forbid I start that debate here) or it didn't happen.

Quite frankly, I think that parents do a lot of shit to their kids that they have no right to do. Implanting chips is one of the better ones, because it can be undone with relative ease once the child is an adult. As it stands now, I wouldn't get the chip for myself or my loved ones, precisely because I don't think it's been tested well enough, but the health objections to the chip are not very different from the health objects to any other new product that's made to go inside the human body. My feelings there are more of a reflection on my feelings toward the FDA than my feelings about microchips.

I really don't think I'm so important that the government would bother stalking me anyway, unless I gave them a very (I mean, like, I-assassinated-the-president-level) good reason to. If I did give them such a reason, one of my first actions would be to cut out the chip. It's not that deep beneath the skin. It would hurt like Hell to have it removed by someone who wasn't a licensed surgeon (even if the remover was a surgeon, if she/he/zie didn't have anesthesia it would still suck) but it can be done without a great deal of damage to the body as a whole. If I hadn't done something very wrong, I really wouldn't worry about it. Our government would go broke trying to manage that kind of tracking-technology, even if they limited it to criminals and children. Forget running it on everyone. Unless I'm on the run for treason, the Antichirst himself doesn't give a shit where I am on a Friday night.

4/9/2010 #23
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