Femslash Central
Lesbians in love, such a misunderstood topic in modern culture. It's not just about the color pink, or magical kisses in the rain. It's about two people in love who happen to be women. If you're a writer of femslash or simply a reader, stop in.
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bloodyfangs
Glad it doesn’t make me a hypocrite!

Maybe it’s the reason characters become so real- because they are real due to the fact that we are real…

LOL! I don’t think any family is stable. It’s the hope and envoy that T.V families give us that leads us to believe our families are not stable/normal.

2/21/2007 #31
as beauty dies
I can stomach a cliche when it comes to femmeslash (there are just too few Girls-Love stories out there!) but I can't stand a certain cliche, and that is: Religion as the enemy. Especially in the context of Christianity's opinion/beliefs on homosexuality.

I think it is just over-used; people's opinions can differ from their religion's beliefs. SERIOUSLY.

- as beauty dies

2/26/2007 #32
LEDlorien7
I actually think I can agree with that. It's weird because I don't really embrace religion, but I don't think it's the only problem. It's individuals.
3/5/2007 #33
Knightmare Elite
Damn, guess I've been living under a rock with that one. Already wrote it into one of my current stories, and was planning a story arc around it. Well I guess it was inevitable, no story can be cliche free I guess.
3/6/2007 #34
LEDlorien7
Well, I don't mind stories with religion as the bad guy, I just don't think it's the only villain. I'd be interested in reading whatever you have planned.
3/8/2007 #35
Muliebral
There are several not-so-common things that really... disturb, me about cliche's. And some of them are:

1: If a character realizes they are of the "femme persuasion" they instantly want to sleep with every girl, and/or they try to hide from the fact that they are having dirty thoughts, but they still think them anyways...

2: When a protagonist has a boyfriend who they then tell about their recent switch, the boyfriend is either, incredibly uber-cool about it, or freaks out and suddenly becomes this lesbian-hating nazi who tries to get the girl hated.

2: When for some reason everybody who finds out is completely cool with it, which believe you me, is NOT how the world works. (At least, it didn't for me). There is always at least one person that goes crazy and abandons the person.

But yes, I'm sorry if I got off-subject, but those are my pet-peeves.

3/9/2007 #36
LEDlorien7
I'm not trying to criticize you, but I just thought it was kind of funny to say: There are several not-so-common things that really... disturb, me about cliche's

If they're "not-so-common" how are they cliches?

You make good points though. I agree with your first one, I had never thought about that until I read your comment, then I was like "Hey, that DOES always happen!" Same thing with your second point, I had never noticed it before, but it is true. Your third point, is also true in a lot of stories. I just wanted to comment that for me, (and I know this is completely abnormal) I've been out for a little over a year and I've been very open about being a lesbian. I'm pretty sure that most people in my school who know I exist also know that I'm gay, or at least suspect it. So far, everyone has been very accepting. Or at least, I haven't met any open opposition yet. I know that I am extremely lucky, and I don't expect this to last very long. I also live in a very liberal community. So I don't think it's untirely unrealistic for someone to come out and be accepted by all of their friends.

Great points though, I never really thought about those cliches before.

3/9/2007 #37
as beauty dies
Well, I don't mind stories with religion as the bad guy, I just don't think it's the only villain.

Neither do I, but the fact of the matter is: too many people make religon the enemy by making a stereotypical bigoted, gay-hating, (atleast, most of the time) Christian who is often times portrayed as ignorant--in the sense of unintelligant--in their speech/beliefs--half the time said character doesn't even understand half the things they are preeching!

I find it offensive, for the most part. Just because religon/society isn't all big and friendly and accepting about it doesn't mean everyone who is apart of it feels the same exact way. Hell, a person can be of said supposed-gay-hating-religon and STILL BE A PART OF IT.

Also: why are all parents gay-hating Christians/insert-not-gay-friendly-religon-HERE? That, too, annoys me beyond belief. -____-;;;

- as beauty dies

3/11/2007 #38
Knightmare Elite
I'm liking this religion discussion, and I have noticed those cliches, especially about the ignorant bible-thumpers. I think I have a pretty good handle on the religion situation, it's just trying to keep it seem from becoming overly superficial. As for the parents, yeah that's a common but almost inevitable cliche in gay fiction. I'd talk more on this but I have school tomorrow.
3/11/2007 #39
LEDlorien7
I love debating about religion! Personally, I don't really like religion, I feel like it's responsible for too many wars, too much death, and too much hate. But I don't have anything against people who are religious, as long as they don't shove their religion into my face. I'm an agnostic atheist.

But about the cliches, I feel like the "religious parent" cliche happens so much in real life that it's not a fallacy, it's just a reflection of reality. But I'm not very well informed, and chemistry is almost over, so I have to get off the school computer. *grins*

3/19/2007 #40
as beauty dies
I love debating about religion! Personally, I don't really like religion, I feel like it's responsible for too many wars, too much death, and too much hate. But I don't have anything against people who are religious, as long as they don't shove their religion into my face. I'm an agnostic atheist.

I'm not overly religious; I don't associate myself with any religion, but I identify myself as believing in a God (or Powers That Be), which is about as much as I can say on the subject. My parents--my family--aren't devoutly practicing either.

Oh, and forgive me if this question sounds stupid, but it just had to be said: Isn't "agnostic atheist" an oxymoron? ^^; What I always thought was that a person who is agnostic believes in something; an atheist believes in nothing. Have I been misinformed? [frets]

But about the cliches, I feel like the "religious parent" cliche happens so much in real life that it's not a fallacy, it's just a reflection of reality.

[le sigh] My best-friend has parents like that (her father calls her a lesbian and makes her go without eating sometimes, terrorizing her to tears and calling her brother cruel things, in his face, for being gay); I KNOW there are parents like that and it pisses me off. I think, no matter WHAT some book said, you should love your child regardless--he/she is a part of you, for God sake. But, that being said, not all parents are like that; the thing is, a lot of parents do accept their children in time (or delude themselves, which I find sadder) but most femmeslash--particularly: slash--fics take this and over-state it.

Basically, the parents/society beat the bloody pulp out of the kid for being a fag; this mostly leads to the character being a stereotypical goth/emo-kid and whiny, annoying and...yeah. In short: it's all very bad.

The thing is: I just want this to end. Not all parents immediately hate their kid for being "suspected gay child" [ie. He doesn't play ball? Oh, he's queer! (beating ensues)] or being just blatant about it. I hate it; I read far too much bad slash/femmeslash of FF, I don't need to go through the same trite every time I waddle along on FP! :D (No one does, for the matter! :D)

But I'm not very well informed[...]

Also: Neither am I. ;)

- as beauty dies/Noelle

P.S:

I wish we had these debates/discussions on FF. T__T

3/19/2007 #41
Knightmare Elite
I only have a few minutes to comment before school, but anyway.

When I started writing lesbian stories, the unaccepting parent was almost a standard part of all gay fiction. And well back then, being I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes I just wrote was I thought was generally acceptable. Of course by the time I was on my second story, I started realizing that even though most parents do take to heart realizing their child plays for the other team, they generally won't disown their flesh and blood and treat them like some third world Aids victim. But I've been trying to find better ways of handling that situation between parent and child. And I'm currently delving into that arena once more in a current story. I think even though this is fiction, it still needs to reflect somewhat on real life, and and this is one cliche that is most relatable as it is ultimately one of the most prevalant especially to young teens.

3/20/2007 #42
Natasha5
Well, in my story Poesje (which is based off of the cliché of a cat who can turn into a human thanks to a spell gone wrong - and also contains slash and strange humour), the two couples are... Well, it's hard to explain, but the female/female couples are both princesses.

I chose this because I figured it to be a cliché (and I *love* basing my stories off of cliché ideas and then taking it too far), but then I couldn't actually find any princess/princess femslash! Have I mistaken this as a cliché?

Because there's so much slash about princes, I thought it'd work the other way around...

*Gives up*

3/25/2007 #43
as beauty dies
Well, in my story Poesje (which is based off of the cliché of a cat who can turn into a human thanks to a spell gone wrong - and also contains slash and strange humour), the two couples are... Well, it's hard to explain, but the female/female couples are both princesses.

In certain sections I'd find this cliche--the "manga" section, mostly, due to the fact that "Revolutionary Girl Utena" focuses on the imagery of two princesses falling in love, or something like that ^^; (I adore the series, but it is ridiculously hard to make a summary of it, or even explain it correctly, without feeling your leaving out every element of the anime)--but not one I've seen a lot in fiction [ie. "person who turns into a cat" is something new to me in fiction; I've seen more manga dealing with it then actual published works].

Personally, I love the idea of princesses falling in love with one another! Simply because I was raised on Disney; I've always wanted to read, or take, something Disney-esq and make it...well, realistic or, um, perverted. ^^; In the sense of two princesses falling in love, it does constitute as perverted--I wrote a fic where, in a mix of "Disney" and "Kingdom Hearts"-'verse, implied Ursula/Ariel. Otherwise, I haven't read anything that is actually original; in the sense of Utena/Anthy original. ^^;

(Oh! And I'm checking out your fic, it interests me to insane degrees.)

I chose this because I figured it to be a cliché (and I *love* basing my stories off of cliché ideas and then taking it too far), but then I couldn't actually find any princess/princess femslash! Have I mistaken this as a cliché?

Because there's so much slash about princes, I thought it'd work the other way around...

Hmn. I think you might have; I know treana--id: 279513--had written a fic along those lines, but I don't know if she still has it posted. I agree though, I haven't really seen any that weren't actually Boys-Love. ^^;

Oh, it would, but slash is immensely popular; so any story that deals with the theme would be dwarfed with its slash brethren.

^^; I'm sorry. My rant is just me wibbling on and not helping you at all, I'm sorry.

- as beauty dies

3/25/2007 #44
Knightmare Elite
I've always wanted to read a fantasy story where a heroine rescues a princess. But yeah slash just takes a big dump on femslash at fictionpress. But that's the cool thing about being a writer, if you can't find what you like, you can write it yourself.
3/25/2007 #45
as beauty dies
Ever been to The Pit?

. . . Um, Fanfiction.net. ^^;

Yeah, well . . . Not only is there few yuri--I'm probably going to use a whole array of manga/anime fan-girl slang so, please, bear with me (as I've just returned off an anime forum XD)--but even fewer ones that I would actually say are of quality. I love the site, there are many brilliant authors on the site but they only take up 5% of the whole fic!dump on the site.

So, yeah. I can atleast keep the eye-bleach at bay when I'm looking for yuri (thogh I've yet to read fantastic smut TT__TT).

So, yeah, there are my two-cents and then some.

4/23/2007 #46
Muliebral
That is true... But the good stories on Fanfiction are really, REALLY good... whilst the bad ones... no comment.

But that is a good site to go to when looking for cliches...If you read carefully they will stick out greatly! Especially if you read manga/anime fics, then the most common one is...

"OMG I don't want to go for the guy I'm with in the orriginal story, so I'm going to bang this chick and all will be good!"

Ya know... I point it out, but those are my stories as well... ^___^

(by the way, if I've peaked your interest... http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1129368/ )

4/24/2007 #47
dog problems
Ever been to The Pit?

. . . Um, Fanfiction.net. ^^;

I have an account there! XD

(Forgive me if I'm, like, intruding or something; for some reason, every time I post in a forum, the people there are all best buddies and hate me for intruding on their fun...)

Not only is there few yuri--I'm probably going to use a whole array of manga/anime fan-girl slang so, please, bear with me (as I've just returned off an anime forum XD)--but even fewer ones that I would actually say are of quality.

Yeah. There are a lot of fandoms with zero yuri at all; usually they also have glaringly obvious femslash pairings. Then, of course, there's the fandoms where all of the femslash fics either suck to high heaven or blow my mind... [coughHARRYPOTTERcough]

I love the site, there are many brilliant authors on the site but they only take up 5% of the whole fic!dump on the site.

Probably less space than that. Most stories are "omg name/name hook up yayz!" or "I have a sugar high and I'm taking it out on YOU!!" and, just, ugh.

That is true... But the good stories on Fanfiction are really, REALLY good... whilst the bad ones... no comment.

Haha, that's what I just said.

But that is a good site to go to when looking for cliches...If you read carefully they will stick out greatly! Especially if you read manga/anime fics, then the most common one is...

"OMG I don't want to go for the guy I'm with in the orriginal story, so I'm going to bang this chick and all will be good!"

Reminds me of most Harry/Draco fics: "Pansy's a bitch, Harry's hott!"

(by the way, if I've peaked your interest... http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1129368/ )

That was some (s)excellent Fred/George fic, there.

- Colleen

4/28/2007 #48
as beauty dies
Oh, you do? [blinks] What is your pen-name?

Oh, and you're not intruding; I wouldn't say we are all friends--just people who love/obsesses over femmeslash. Plus, new members mean more people to giggle and squee with when concerning femmeslash. :D Yeah.

Yeah. There are a lot of fandoms with zero yuri at all; usually they also have glaringly obvious femslash pairings. Then, of course, there's the fandoms where all of the femslash fics either suck to high heaven or blow my mind... [coughHARRYPOTTERcough]

I know the feeling. I'm in so many fandoms it is almost ridiculous, some you can get away with writing femmeslash--I've written HP femmeslash before (Bellatrix/Ginny), and it was well received to the time of deletion--but some just can't stand it for this and that reason--C. S. Lewis's THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA series, you can't get away with anything besides het, even though I find strong slash (ie. gay) undertones. While others ignore it (I am so not looking at you, LOVELESS fandom).

But, I agree on whole; most fandoms have it split down the middle toward stinking to high heaven and being a masterpiece. I sometimes give up on FF and just quit the site when I stumble upon a good!fic and then I fall back in love--I think it is unhealthy, this love/hate thing with FF.

But, yes, most things on there are trash; the same I can say for FP but, not entirely. (I'm really sick of stumbling on crappy poetry. . . I really am. -___-)

But, yes, a fellow FF(net) author! Yayz! =D

OH, AND SO WE ARE STILL ON TOPIC AND STUFF. . .

I have realized one very important thing that annoys me, and that is BAD SMUT.

I mean, I never write it if I can--unless, you know, you count the doodles and stuff that helped with "plotting" (but we will not speak of that)--but it is simple: cheesy euphemisms are not sexy, they are a major mood killer.

This goes for slash--and het--mostly because "his hot, throbbing man-thing" kills me dead (worse than reading goth gurl's "My Immortal"), and euphemisms for a vagina are just as bad, if not worse.

. . .

To tell you the truth, I think this was covered. -___-

But, waaaahhhh~!

TT___TT Where did the good!smut go!

- Noelle/as beauty dies/poetic abortion/Pixie Paramount

4/29/2007 #49
LL Anonymous
If somebody already mentioned this then I am totally sorry. But the thing that bugs me the most about lesbian stories is how they portray the actual character... so cliche:

1) There always has to be one bitchy person.

2) At least one of them has to have short hair.

3) One of them act as if they're guys.

4) There has to be one person who doesn't approve of their own sexuality

If you mentioned these already then I'm sorry, but if I read another lesfic that has any one of these cliches in it I will seriously scream!

And BTW, I don't normally read these fics, I usually read it because it has a good story line - not because there are lesbians in them. So maybe it's my lack of reading these fics, that I have come upon these overused cliches.

5/5/2007 #50
dog problems
Actually, LL, I've never seen the first one; the second, yes, and the third especially, but not really the fourth, either. :\

- Colleen

5/5/2007 #51
Knightmare Elite
Wow, I seemed to have checked that list off in my latest story. But in a way it's my fault for not catching so many of these cliches. As dumb as this may sound, I actually don't read as much as I write. My book collection is sooooo tiny most authors would laugh at it. This is however the third story with a short haired character, but her reasoning is sort of cliche and I knew that, but it's part of a much larger arc for her character, and yeah she's a bit bitchy and her love interest has many male mannerisms. But I'm sure I'll hit off a few more as the story goes on.
5/5/2007 #52
dog problems
I hate the fics where one or both is butch and tomboyish. That destroys the whole point of it being femslash.

- Colleen

5/8/2007 #53
Knightmare Elite
That's another element I struggle with in my stories. Many readers seem split down the middle with this. I have been criticized for making characters too 'girly' and not realistically portraying lesbians. On the other hand I do try to stay away from the ultra butch characters, mainly because I feel that's too stereotypical, still the ideal 'two anatomically incorrect babes' kissing and making out is another area I try to avoid. I don't know what the 'standard' is for femslash, I just create characters that interest me and reflect their situations, lives and character progression. Then again I always wonder about transgender characters.

Oh yeah welcome to the forum 19 stitches, I always forget to do that.

5/8/2007 . Edited 5/8/2007 #54
as beauty dies
I hate the fics where one or both is butch and tomboyish. That destroys the whole point of it being femslash.

It does, doesn't it? XP

- as beauty dies

5/10/2007 #55
dog problems
I'm doing a fic where this woman leaves her (abusive, insane) husband and moves like ten states over and, uh, I'm not sure if it should be het or femslash. Of course everyone here is going to tell me femslash... I should probably go somewhere more neutral. And both of the possible characters are FRICKIN' SWEET, which doesn't make it any easier to choose. [pouts]

- Colleen

5/10/2007 #56
Knightmare Elite
It's your story so write whatever you feel most closely recreates the artistic vision you have in your mind. Even though this is a femslash forum, it's not biased against other genres. But boobs never hurt anything. ...did i just say that?
5/10/2007 #57
dog problems
It's your story so write whatever you feel most closely recreates the artistic vision you have in your mind.

Hm. Well. This is hard. [deaths] I kind of like the femslash idea better... :D

But boobs never hurt anything. ...did i just say that?

Yes you did.

Oh yeah welcome to the forum 19 stitches

Um, call me Colleen. I change my name a lot so it's just easier.

- Colleen

5/11/2007 . Edited 5/12/2007 #58
all you need is oxygen
I'm a little biased on this because I normally write tomboy (soft butch, I suppose)/feminine girl, but I don't see how having one or two tomboys/butches defeats the purpose... I mean, femslash... isn't that just Female Slash? So why does it matter if one is tomboyish or a butch? They're still female...

I guess it's a matter of opinion. Having two butch/tomboys would, for me, not be a good story because it would end up reminding me of slash, as in guy/guy slash. However, it wouldn't defeat the purpose of femslash, as they are both still female.

Just my opinion.

6/17/2007 #59
as beauty dies
I mean, femslash... isn't that just Female Slash? So why does it matter if one is tomboyish or a butch? They're still female...

Essentially, it is. And we aren't arguing the fact; it's just that the 'butch/femme' dynamic is a stereotype within the lesbian cultue, like the efiminite gay man stereotype, and it just isn't always true. ^__^

What we are arguing is the fact of how tired the subject is in fanfiction and original fiction--that it gets a bit boring after a while.

However, it wouldn't defeat the purpose of femslash, as they are both still female.

Just my opinion.

Actually, it's the oppostite with me. I actually do think that butch/femme dynamics in fanficiton/original is defeating the purpose of femmeslash in how it is written; I've read the good, and the bad, and since this forum focuses mostly on the bad, my opinion is basically backed-up.

Because, simply, a butch and fememine dynamic is too reminiscent of het, much like two butch characters is reminiscent of slash.

^^; Just my humble opinion.

- as beauty dies

6/17/2007 #60
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